Tube drivers paid extra £1800 not to strike during Olympics

[mph1977]

Marquis Rex said:

Useless English overpaid Tube and bus drivers. Absolutely useless overpaid workshy scum!


Meanwhile English engineers are paid 25-28K and are supposed to be chuffed about it.

The Uk really is land of the lazy unionised blue collar workshy fkwitts (witness technicians and plumbers calling themselves engineers etc), chav scum bottom feeder parasites, football hooligans or bankers that just pass money around getting overpaid!

Glad I'm out of that mad house. *takes deep breath*

the wages for bus drivers in particular is london-only thing, although traincrew are on a decent whack most places , outside of London bus driving is often little more than NMW especially if it;s not for one of the big groups ...

define 'engineer' as decent IEng and good Eng Techs were earning more than that 10+ years ago ( and some of the IEngs I knew at that time were on a lot more and doing jobs that people might associate with CEngs on the basis of their track record and experience - and sat in the company heirarchy as technically the most senior person on site as the factory (production) Managers had someone between them and their Director while the EPMs reported directly to the engineering director - admittedly that's a fairly small, anecodtal , selection in food + pharma reflecting the peers of my Dad who was one of the aforementioned Eng Project managers )

[mph1977]

Murph7355 said:

swerni said:

The sooner the whole network goes driverless the better.

And what dinosaurs like Bob Crow (and people like Scargill before him) cannot fathom is the more they act like obnoxious, spoilt brats not in touch with the real world, the faster people will find ways around them like this. And then their members will be left with nothing.

Still, Bob will be left sat on a pretty penny in his council house.

tt. Entitlement idiots like Crow are everything that's bad about this country and have been strangling it for 4 decades.

Scargill's folly and the '30k' fire strike are the classic examples of strike action that lost the support of the public and proved nothing other than the idiocy of the union leadership ...

i've still to see a good reason why an ordinary Firefighter deserves a wage of 30 k - which is more than the basic wage of many nurses ( and more than the wage including shift allowance of a significant number of Nurses as well ) , or a Police Constable, when a Firefighter isn't allowed to cross the road without a grown up ( an appliance is off the run without a crew manager or watch manager on it )

[NightRunner]

martin84 said:

Yes I heard this morning bus drivers are at it. What exactly do they want? Are they being asked to do anything they wouldn't normally do?

To do their fking job.

This further reinforces my belief that bus & tube drivers are CTS

[Marquis Rex]

mph1977 said:

Marquis Rex said:

Useless English overpaid Tube and bus drivers. Absolutely useless overpaid workshy scum!


Meanwhile English engineers are paid 25-28K and are supposed to be chuffed about it.

The Uk really is land of the lazy unionised blue collar workshy fkwitts (witness technicians and plumbers calling themselves engineers etc), chav scum bottom feeder parasites, football hooligans or bankers that just pass money around getting overpaid!

Glad I'm out of that mad house. *takes deep breath*

the wages for bus drivers in particular is london-only thing, although traincrew are on a decent whack most places , outside of London bus driving is often little more than NMW especially if it;s not for one of the big groups ...

define 'engineer' as decent IEng and good Eng Techs were earning more than that 10+ years ago ( and some of the IEngs I knew at that time were on a lot more and doing jobs that people might associate with CEngs on the basis of their track record and experience - and sat in the company heirarchy as technically the most senior person on site as the factory (production) Managers had someone between them and their Director while the EPMs reported directly to the engineering director - admittedly that's a fairly small, anecodtal , selection in food + pharma reflecting the peers of my Dad who was one of the aforementioned Eng Project managers )

Sorry never heard of "IEng". No need to define- I mean a qualified engineer with degree- as it is in civilised accomplished countries like Germany and the USA- not a technician or fabricator. I would suggest more familiarity before citing anecdotal or better, factual evidence,
If you're refering to the ImechE then being a member of that joke of an organisation makes zero difference. I was a member and dropped out to emigrate and join the far better SAE instead.
I'm not talking about pharmacists (street or otherwise) but mechanical engineering. This has been covered in numerous threads already like this one:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
A typical development engineer at Perkins will be on 34- 40 K max. 10 years ago it was nearer 30K.

I still get emails like this from recruiters in the UK:

"Dear Mr Rex



As a preferred supply partner to the Caterpillar Group of companies we are currently recruiting for several Calibration Engineers, Technical Specialists, Development Engineers and Certification Engineers to join the established Performance and Emissions team based within Perkins Engines at Peterborough.



I have attached a leaflet that provides further information about this exciting team and their requirements and we would be very keen to hear from you if you might be interested in joining them. If you know anyone else who has relevant powertrain related skills then please forward this email onto them.



Thank you.



We look forward to hearing from you."

This was my response:

"Hi Stephen,
Funny you should mention Caterpiller, I've been in contact with them over here in the USA and had two interviews with them already regarding a grade 27 position- technical manager of their development- in Illinois. I'm flying over there next week. The salary for this position is $175,000 a year. I don't think I'm interested in moving back to the UK/Peterborough for both my career, status and salary to move backwards.

I live in the USA now and this is my home, where engineers are treated right and I can get a house for under $200,000 -it's highly unlikely I'd be interested in moving back to the UK.

On the otherhand I can't think of anyone to reccommend- I've been out of touch with engineers out there. There aren't any engineers out here interested moving to the UK. My colleague just left Caterpiller to work for Changan in Nottingham and they're paying him 60 K GBP (double).

Good luck in your search!"

Changan is a Chinese company in Nottingham that is sucking up all the talent from Jaguar and Perkins by paying an almost reasonable wage (double the UK).

Engineers have to be entrepenerial to earn a decent wage or emigrate out of that Island. All Tube and bus drivers have to do to claim their stake of the tax payers subsidised wage is go on strike and throw their teddies out of the pram

[Hooli]

NightRunner said:

martin84 said:

Yes I heard this morning bus drivers are at it. What exactly do they want? Are they being asked to do anything they wouldn't normally do?

To do their fking job.

This further reinforces my belief that bus & tube drivers are CTS

As an ex bus driver & knowing the creatures I worked with, I'd agree fully with that

[XCP]

Why shouldn't they try and get as much money as they can? There are going to be a lot more fare paying passengers being carried are there not?

[mph1977]

Marquis if you don't know what an Incorporated Engineer is , then you really have no chance of being taken seriously in a discussion on engineering practice in the UK is

let's see what the Engineering Council says about IEng

http://www.engc.org.uk/professional-qualifications...

you have also slighted IEngs by your assumption that they aren't professional engineers , at least it's only based on ignorance rather than malice.

the engineering Council recognises 4 levels of professional in ENgineering

Engineering Technicians

http://www.engc.org.uk/professional-qualifications...

Incorporated Engineers ( link posted above)

Chartered Engineer

http://www.engc.org.uk/professional-qualifications...


and the EUr Ing accreditation for CEng

http://www.engc.org.uk/professional-qualifications...

[Marquis Rex]

mph1977 said:

Marquis if you don't know what an Incorporated Engineer is , then you really have no chance of being taken seriously in a discussion on engineering practice in the UK is

let's see what the Engineering Council says about IEng

http://www.engc.org.uk/professional-qualifications...

you have also slighted IEngs by your assumption that they aren't professional engineers , at least it's only based on ignorance rather than malice.

the engineering Council recognises 4 levels of professional in ENgineering

Engineering Technicians

http://www.engc.org.uk/professional-qualifications...

Incorporated Engineers ( link posted above)

Chartered Engineer

http://www.engc.org.uk/professional-qualifications...


and the EUr Ing accreditation for CEng

http://www.engc.org.uk/professional-qualifications...

Let's see, I am an arbitor and proof read technical papers for the SAE. I was involved in the engine development of the Jaguar AJV8 and Aston Martin V8 Vantage as well as the JV6. I'm currently a chief engineer at a global truck engineering company. Even so I still get regular emails from recruiters over there asking for me to come back- C Eng status or not. THAT's the difference that makes! I DON'T recognise "Incorporated engineers". Sorry, why don't you list your achievements that make you ANY KIND of authority in this matter- short of being big man on an internet forum?

Back on topic, let's hear what you think makes Tube and train drivers so special as to get more money than other skilled professions in the UK

[mph1977]

Marquis are you usually such an arguementative arse ?

you don't seem to have read anything that I have written in my posts , possibly due to the rising bile from the fact you thought I was on about IMechE

I'm not an Engineer ( although I did quite seriously attempt to become one before falling out with some of the course content ) I am a Registered Professional, in another Field , i'm a Nurse registered with the NMC ...

both my (late) Father and his father were engineers, my dad was a IEng, MIPlantE and MIHEEM ( MIHospE originally ) and my grandfather was what would now be an Eng Tech as a toolmaker for Raleigh... ( co-incidentially my maternal grandfather while not an 'engineer' was certainly a technically savvy person as a pit deputy) ...

the principal difficulty engineering in the UK faces from a professional practice point of view is two fold - lack of enclosure of title and lack or enclosure of scope of practice / licences to practice ...


as i said the bus driver wage thing is London issue as bus driver wages outside London are less than national average and in some places / operators NMW

the train crew stuff, some of it is the legal responsibilities that train crew carry under the various bits of legislation that govern the railways , otherwise it's the power of the unions and the pervading influence of British Rail TaCoS

why don't you Bore off you bitter little man if you have nothing better to do than insult others ?

Edited by mph1977 on Sunday 10th June 14:36

[rich1231]

Marquis Rex said:

Let's see, I am an arbitor and proof read technical papers for the SAE. I was involved in the engine development of the Jaguar AJV8 and Aston Martin V8 Vantage as well as the JV6. I'm currently a chief engineer at a global truck engineering company. Even so I still get regular emails from recruiters over there asking for me to come back- C Eng status or not. THAT's the difference that makes! I DON'T recognise "Incorporated engineers". Sorry, why don't you list your achievements that make you ANY KIND of authority in this matter- short of being big man on an internet forum?

Back on topic, let's hear what you think makes Tube and train drivers so special as to get more money than other skilled professions in the UK

Do you respond to all prospective recruitment emails with the "Don't you know who I am" email posted earlier?

[Mario149]

FWIW, I did a 4 year Aero Eng degree and worked for 2 years after in defence aerospace up 'til 2007 and I've never heard of "Incorporated Engineer" at any point. It was Chartered or nothing

ETA: having done a bit of reading on IEng, it looks like I could have pretty much ticked all the boxes on the UK-SPEC sheet after only the couple of years I was in....kinda wish I'd known about it then so I could have got some more letters after my name if nothing else

ETA again: getting Chartered where I worked was expected to take 5-6 years in the industry after graduation from an MEng degree, so I guess 2-3 years for IEng seems about right

Edited by Mario149 on Sunday 10th June 14:48

[turbobloke]

XCP said:

Why shouldn't they try and get as much money as they can? There are going to be a lot more fare paying passengers being carried are there not?

Does that somehow increase the carrying capacity of the metalwork being driven?

In answer to the question - because there's no credible compelling reason. It's about holding the public, tourists and the games to ransom.

[mph1977]

Mario149 said:

FWIW, I did a 4 year Aero Eng degree and worked for 2 years after in defence aerospace up 'til 2007 and I've never heard of "Incorporated Engineer" at any point. It was Chartered or nothing

probably because as a MEng graduate you are assumed to be on the CEng path ,

until recently the route to IEng was via HNCs and HNDs , although if you look at the EngC stuff I posted earlier it's now HND, Foundation Degree or some BEngs to meet the academic requirement.

[Mario149]

mph1977 said:

probably because as a MEng graduate you are assumed to be on the CEng path ,

until recently the route to IEng was via HNCs and HNDs , although if you look at the EngC stuff I posted earlier it's now HND, Foundation Degree or some BEngs to meet the academic requirement.

That would explain it have also added to my post above....

[mph1977]

Mario149 said:

That would explain it have also added to my post above....

exactly ...

[NightRunner]

turbobloke said:

XCP said:

Why shouldn't they try and get as much money as they can? There are going to be a lot more fare paying passengers being carried are there not?

Does that somehow increase the carrying capacity of the metalwork being driven?

In answer to the question - because there's no credible compelling reason. It's about holding the public, tourists and the games to ransom.

Nail on head.

[iphonedyou]

Marquis Rex said:

Sorry never heard of "IEng". No need to define- I mean a qualified engineer with degree- as it is in civilised accomplished countries like Germany and the USA- not a technician or fabricator. I would suggest more familiarity before citing anecdotal or better, factual evidence,
If you're refering to the ImechE then being a member of that joke of an organisation makes zero difference. I was a member and dropped out to emigrate and join the far better SAE instead.
I'm not talking about pharmacists (street or otherwise) but mechanical engineering. This has been covered in numerous threads already like this one:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
A typical development engineer at Perkins will be on 34- 40 K max. 10 years ago it was nearer 30K.

I still get emails like this from recruiters in the UK:

"Dear Mr Rex



As a preferred supply partner to the Caterpillar Group of companies we are currently recruiting for several Calibration Engineers, Technical Specialists, Development Engineers and Certification Engineers to join the established Performance and Emissions team based within Perkins Engines at Peterborough.



I have attached a leaflet that provides further information about this exciting team and their requirements and we would be very keen to hear from you if you might be interested in joining them. If you know anyone else who has relevant powertrain related skills then please forward this email onto them.



Thank you.



We look forward to hearing from you."

This was my response:

"Hi Stephen,
Funny you should mention Caterpiller, I've been in contact with them over here in the USA and had two interviews with them already regarding a grade 27 position- technical manager of their development- in Illinois. I'm flying over there next week. The salary for this position is $175,000 a year. I don't think I'm interested in moving back to the UK/Peterborough for both my career, status and salary to move backwards.

I live in the USA now and this is my home, where engineers are treated right and I can get a house for under $200,000 -it's highly unlikely I'd be interested in moving back to the UK.

On the otherhand I can't think of anyone to reccommend- I've been out of touch with engineers out there. There aren't any engineers out here interested moving to the UK. My colleague just left Caterpiller to work for Changan in Nottingham and they're paying him 60 K GBP (double).

Good luck in your search!"

Changan is a Chinese company in Nottingham that is sucking up all the talent from Jaguar and Perkins by paying an almost reasonable wage (double the UK).

Engineers have to be entrepenerial to earn a decent wage or emigrate out of that Island. All Tube and bus drivers have to do to claim their stake of the tax payers subsidised wage is go on strike and throw their teddies out of the pram

The recipient of that totally unnecessary email probably thought you were as a big a knob as we all think you are. Does this level of total inability to conduct oneself in a professional manner come naturally, or require a lifetime of training?

The irony is your conduct only serves to promote the very denigration of the industry you so vociferously oppose.

Edited by iphonedyou on Sunday 10th June 15:30

[rich1231]

Marquis, please don't PM me again on here.

[Murph7355]

mph1977 said:

Scargill's folly and the '30k' fire strike are the classic examples of strike action that lost the support of the public and proved nothing other than the idiocy of the union leadership ...

And the tube drivers need to appreciate that they are on the same path and it's about time they packed it in with all the strike nonsense.

Incidentally, I have some sympathy with both sides of the fire-fighter argument. Had the job stayed what it was a decade or two ago, then the calls for more money would have been more justified, but as it is....probably not.

Perhaps there's an argument for standard pay scales across the emergency services.

However...do fire-fighters (or nurses, the police etc) warrant being paid less money than tube drivers? Unfortunately the latter are a private company with a union that seems intent, as others have noted, on holding its customers to ransom. And the employer of the former is pretty much broke and in need of making cuts.

[Du1point8]

XCP said:

Why shouldn't they try and get as much money as they can? There are going to be a lot more fare paying passengers being carried are there not?

I bet you are the same type of person that is complaining at the CEOs getting paid going rate, being that their salaries are decided by a board and they don't blackmail the company to get more money, they earn it.