Tube drivers paid extra £1800 not to strike during Olympics

[mph1977]

Murph7355 said:

mph1977 said:

Scargill's folly and the '30k' fire strike are the classic examples of strike action that lost the support of the public and proved nothing other than the idiocy of the union leadership ...

And the tube drivers need to appreciate that they are on the same path and it's about time they packed it in with all the strike nonsense.

Incidentally, I have some sympathy with both sides of the fire-fighter argument. Had the job stayed what it was a decade or two ago, then the calls for more money would have been more justified, but as it is....probably not.

Perhaps there's an argument for standard pay scales across the emergency services.

However...do fire-fighters (or nurses, the police etc) warrant being paid less money than tube drivers? Unfortunately the latter are a private company with a union that seems intent, as others have noted, on holding its customers to ransom. And the employer of the former is pretty much broke and in need of making cuts.

in terms of a common pay scale across the emergency services, there is the tried and tested job evaluation scheme used in the NHS, developed for agenda for Change, which is capable of grading nearly any job going ( although Doctors, Dentists and Very Senior managers aren't paid on AFC terms) that managed to assess everyone else in the NHS from cleaners to not quite very senior managers, from Healthcare assistants to estates craftspeople and attempted to fairly assess the job responsibilities of all the different None Doctor / Dentist health Professionals and compare them with the professional staff who support service delivery ( the accountants , IT people, Hospital Engineers etc )

the ambulance service are all ready covered under this and unsuprisingly Paramedics were banded in band 5 along with the majority of other Health Professionals ...

it would be an interesting experiment to band both the BiB and the Fire service under AFC, i suspect that plod would do reasonably well even if their 'no formal academic entry requirement' cost them points because of their freedom to operate away from the direct control of supervisors, where the fact that trumpton can't even cross the road without a 'grown up' would count against them ( the police or ambulance service don't send supervision to every incident , yet without the presence of supervision ( Crew manager or watch manager) a fire appliance is off the run - and given that CARPs are oftne replacing pump + HP there's not even the argument that HPs etc might go out with 2 FF ( but equally how often is an aerial the sole response ... )


in theory you could evaluate train crew job descriptions under AFC and that would be in interesting proposition as well.

if anyone in those jobs would be prepared to collaborate on doing this we could have a try as i can send you copies of the Job Evaluation handbook that is used in AFC banding .

[egor110]

Wasn't this discussed to death in march?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Ari]

XCP said:

Why shouldn't they try and get as much money as they can? There are going to be a lot more fare paying passengers being carried are there not?

How does that affect them? Will they be driving two trains at the same time?

[MP85]

I can't even string a sentence together without swearing, so I'll just sit here and combust.

Striking because they can is disgusting and these union leaders should be throttled.

The sad thing in particular ith the tube, the daily users are the ones hit by the olympics... Fare reductions? No. Just strikes by out of order drivers who already are paid generously for what they do, and see no change to their role throughout he olympic period.

[valiant]

MP85 said:

The sad thing in particular ith the tube, the daily users are the ones hit by the olympics... Fare reductions? No. Just strikes by out of order drivers who already are paid generously for what they do, and see no change to their role throughout he olympic period.

First off, there are no strikes by tube workers. To get this a bit back on topic it's the bus drivers threatening a strike.

Just to pick up the last bit of your comment there are quite substantial changes to working conditions during the Olympics (working patterns,shifts changed,longer shifts,cancelled holidays,etc,etc - you get the idea) which is why the bonus was offered.


Oh BTW, this has been done to death many times before. Search and ye shall find!

[egor110]

egor110 said:

Wasn't this discussed to death in march?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I know , that's why the links here.

[Mojooo]

Driving the tube is soemthing that can and no doubt already is being planned for being - automated.

Perhaps the drivers are tyring to get as much as they can before they are phased out in the next 10-15 years?

Bus drivers will always be needed though IMO.

[XCP]

Du1point8 said:

I bet you are the same type of person that is complaining at the CEOs getting paid going rate, being that their salaries are decided by a board and they don't blackmail the company to get more money, they earn it.

Not at all!
I simply wonder why there seems to be such hostility towards drivers. Many other industries such as transport, hospitality, hotels, catering, T Cobleigh and all, will increases charges for their services over the period of the Olympics. Why shouldn't drivers of buses, who will be working harder, make money out of the games as well?
Will not their employers be gaining more revenue?

[AV12]

Mojooo said:

Driving the tube is soemthing that can and no doubt already is being planned for being - automated.

Perhaps the drivers are tyring to get as much as they can before they are phased out in the next 10-15 years?

Bus drivers will always be needed though IMO.

The Piccadilly and Jubilee have full ATO capability. The Victoria line since 1968. This needs to happen. The pay bonus is complete nonsense.

[Du1point8]

XCP said:

Du1point8 said:

I bet you are the same type of person that is complaining at the CEOs getting paid going rate, being that their salaries are decided by a board and they don't blackmail the company to get more money, they earn it.

Not at all!
I simply wonder why there seems to be such hostility towards drivers. Many other industries such as transport, hospitality, hotels, catering, T Cobleigh and all, will increases charges for their services over the period of the Olympics. Why shouldn't drivers of buses, who will be working harder, make money out of the games as well?
Will not their employers be gaining more revenue?

Explain how they work harder? Should they demand more money when a tube strike is on cause they have to take in more money on a full bus doing the same thing they always do... as in drive a bus that instead of being half full is now full?

working in hospitality they will work harder with more customers, on a bus they take the money off people or see that they have a pass and drive the bus, is it anymore difficult to drive it when full as apposed to empty?

[XCP]

If you have more people getting on and off your bus, you are doing more than if you are driving an empty bus. I would have thought that much was fairly obvious.
But that is a side issue really. With many service providers inflating their prices for the period of the Olympics, I can't say I begrudge the bus drivers earning a bit more.

[Dragoco]

I find this helps a great deal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHu_cfy33bY

TFL = Takes Far Longer.

[turbobloke]

XCP said:

If you have more people getting on and off your bus, you are doing more than if you are driving an empty bus. I would have thought that much was fairly obvious.

I would have thought the parallel with existing rush hours was equally obvious.

Times where a bus is nearly empty are non-compliant with the aims of mass transit. Bus personnel should expect to work on a busy route with a packed bus as routine and see less busy periods as a bonus.

XCP said:

But that is a side issue really. With many service providers inflating their prices for the period of the Olympics, I can't say I begrudge the bus drivers earning a bit more.

Are bus services in London not regulated, unlike elsewhere? If regulated, how are prices inflated? Just asking.

[XCP]

turbobloke said:

Are bus services in London not regulated, unlike elsewhere? If regulated, how are prices inflated? Just asking.

I was referring to other services, not buses. Hotels, for example. As I say I am surprised that there is so much hostility on this forum to people making money whilst the opportunity presents itself.

[crankedup]

Seen the price of a sandwich that will be touted by a selected and restricted group of private outlets? Not allowed to bring your own grub in either, so if that's not profiteering! Is it as bad as a group of workers demanding a pay increase during the period for no other reason than 'because they can', well yes it is. England the land of free markets, usually.

[Du1point8]

XCP said:

turbobloke said:

Are bus services in London not regulated, unlike elsewhere? If regulated, how are prices inflated? Just asking.

I was referring to other services, not buses. Hotels, for example. As I say I am surprised that there is so much hostility on this forum to people making money whilst the opportunity presents itself.

If you are running a hotel and then its fully booked the staff have to work harder running around and looking after customers... being a bus driver they don't, take more money, do the same stops and let more people off... its no more than normal rush hour and they are not paid more for that or when tube is on strike.

By your logic they should get very little pay if they are not carrying anyone as its not really work then, only getting paid per passenger.

[iphonedyou]

I start work for TfL in September.

It will be a sad day, handing in my PH membership.

[XCP]

crankedup said:

Seen the price of a sandwich that will be touted by a selected and restricted group of private outlets? Not allowed to bring your own grub in either, so if that's not profiteering! Is it as bad as a group of workers demanding a pay increase during the period for no other reason than 'because they can', well yes it is. England the land of free markets, usually.

This is the point I have been trying to make.

[wolves_wanderer]

XCP said:

crankedup said:

Seen the price of a sandwich that will be touted by a selected and restricted group of private outlets? Not allowed to bring your own grub in either, so if that's not profiteering! Is it as bad as a group of workers demanding a pay increase during the period for no other reason than 'because they can', well yes it is. England the land of free markets, usually.

This is the point I have been trying to make.

Because feudalism reigns supreme here. Our betters are allowed and encouraged to charge what the market will stand or vote each other payrises with the collective blessings of PH raining down and garlands in the street. God forbid however, if a prole tries to do the same.

[Du1point8]

wolves_wanderer said:

XCP said:

crankedup said:

Seen the price of a sandwich that will be touted by a selected and restricted group of private outlets? Not allowed to bring your own grub in either, so if that's not profiteering! Is it as bad as a group of workers demanding a pay increase during the period for no other reason than 'because they can', well yes it is. England the land of free markets, usually.

This is the point I have been trying to make.

Because feudalism reigns supreme here. Our betters are allowed and encouraged to charge what the market will stand or vote each other payrises with the collective blessings of PH raining down and garlands in the street. God forbid however, if a prole tries to do the same.

There is a difference between what a market is willing to pay and blackmail to get a bonus.

If someone increases the price of hotel/booze/food, then fine, for a public service to demand something for doing their normal job and having more people on a bus... no!!

If they have to work more shifts no doubt they will be compensated, but to simply say pay us more or we will fk up the olympics for you is not what a union should be doing.