New teachers strike wtf
Discussion
Deva Link said:
Where did the surplus go then?
Not sure what the issue is here - there is published information that it's currently running at a bit of a deficit, but that will correct itself as contributions increase and the 2007 becomes more dominant.
More generally, I always think this constant attack on public sector pensions is completely mis-guided. Everyone should have the pensions they do - people in the private sector should be up in arms about their own pensions, not the public sectors. Bet your boss has a good pension.
It went the way of all the other taxpayers money - down the governmental and public sector toilet.Not sure what the issue is here - there is published information that it's currently running at a bit of a deficit, but that will correct itself as contributions increase and the 2007 becomes more dominant.
More generally, I always think this constant attack on public sector pensions is completely mis-guided. Everyone should have the pensions they do - people in the private sector should be up in arms about their own pensions, not the public sectors. Bet your boss has a good pension.
I have no issues with my pension. Do you know why? Because I built the fund up with my own earned money and didn't expect someone else to carry me as too many, including much of the public sector and their s
t for brains union leaders, do.Some of these public sector softies have no clue just how angry the crowd will be when they start striking over pension changes which still leave them massively better-off than they would be in the private sector.
Then add to that the kids have to be looked after when not in school which will be a nightmare for any household where the parents have jobs.
Would the turkeys vote for Christmas? I think these are so out of touch they just might!!
Then add to that the kids have to be looked after when not in school which will be a nightmare for any household where the parents have jobs.
Would the turkeys vote for Christmas? I think these are so out of touch they just might!!
Deva Link said:
Where did the surplus go then?
Not sure what the issue is here - there is published information that it's currently running at a bit of a deficit, but that will correct itself as contributions increase and the 2007 becomes more dominant.
More generally, I always think this constant attack on public sector pensions is completely mis-guided. Everyone should have the pensions they do - people in the private sector should be up in arms about their own pensions, not the public sectors. Bet your boss has a good pension.
Well there is no pension fund so there is not a surplus or a defecit from a fund perspective. Not sure what the issue is here - there is published information that it's currently running at a bit of a deficit, but that will correct itself as contributions increase and the 2007 becomes more dominant.
More generally, I always think this constant attack on public sector pensions is completely mis-guided. Everyone should have the pensions they do - people in the private sector should be up in arms about their own pensions, not the public sectors. Bet your boss has a good pension.
Instead it's a pay as you go ie current employees paying the pension of pensioners. I guess in 2007 when they did the calculation the pension payments from active staff was higher. However now it is less - or is it. Which is their key question. I'd still say it's in surplus ad they want to hear that answer BUT then it's the accepting the cutting of the benefit for the sake of the national defect which is a different question.
If their point is to get that out in the open that's fair enough But don't strike. Make it clear they were sold a duck. Then for future negotiations clearly it will be around correct base salary not future pension benefits then the peoblem will not be present.
Deva Link said:
More generally, I always think this constant attack on public sector pensions is completely mis-guided. Everyone should have the pensions they do - people in the private sector should be up in arms about their own pensions, not the public sectors. Bet your boss has a good pension.
The point is that the private sector are paying for their own pensions, and the public sector pensions, and the public sector pensions are infinitely more generous than those available in the private sector/real world, plus demographics and the generous terms of public sector pensions means that the private sector will have to pay even more in the future to keep those who never worked very hard in a more comfortable retirement than I am likely to experience. That's why it has to change, and that's why I have no sympathy for the public sector whingers.And another thing that currently pisses me off about teachers - since the beginning of term I have received about 6 letters for each of my kids from their schools asking for "contributions" to "the school fund" or to "materials" and "workbooks", and suggesting that if I can't afford to pay I should plead poverty to the school bursar. Look up these words fellas - "free state education", "double-dip recession" and "worst financial crisis since WW1". Then f
k off. Sack 'em all and replace them with the unemployed.Welshbeef said:
Well there is no pension fund so there is not a surplus or a defecit from a fund perspective.
Instead it's a pay as you go ie current employees paying the pension of pensioners. I guess in 2007 when they did the calculation the pension payments from active staff was higher. However now it is less - or is it. Which is their key question. I'd still say it's in surplus ad they want to hear that answer BUT then it's the accepting the cutting of the benefit for the sake of the national defect which is a different question.
If their point is to get that out in the open that's fair enough But don't strike. Make it clear they were sold a duck. Then for future negotiations clearly it will be around correct base salary not future pension benefits then the peoblem will not be present.
It's been said before, but worth repeating (in bold):Instead it's a pay as you go ie current employees paying the pension of pensioners. I guess in 2007 when they did the calculation the pension payments from active staff was higher. However now it is less - or is it. Which is their key question. I'd still say it's in surplus ad they want to hear that answer BUT then it's the accepting the cutting of the benefit for the sake of the national defect which is a different question.
If their point is to get that out in the open that's fair enough But don't strike. Make it clear they were sold a duck. Then for future negotiations clearly it will be around correct base salary not future pension benefits then the peoblem will not be present.
Current contributions being paid in > current benefits being paid out is NOT an appropriate or sensible definition of 'surplus' for a pension fund!
Sidicks
Edited by sidicks on Thursday 15th September 17:54
Welshbeef said:
Well there is no pension fund so there is not a surplus or a defecit from a fund perspective.
No but there's a surplus or deficit based on contributions vs the amount paid in pensions.Welshbeef said:
Instead it's a pay as you go ie current employees paying the pension of pensioners. I guess in 2007 when they did the calculation the pension payments from active staff was higher. However now it is less - or is it. Which is their key question. I'd still say it's in surplus ad they want to hear that answer BUT then it's the accepting the cutting of the benefit for the sake of the national defect which is a different question.
It's reckoned to be in deficit now. But it varies acrosss the public sector. The NHS pension scheme is reckoned to be £2Bn positive.
Bluebarge said:
The point is that the private sector are paying for their own pensions,
Massive big picture, but are they? Ultimately the money to fund them comes from the public.What's gone on here is that the public have driven the prices down of everything they buy so companies can't afford to fund pensions.
Look at France - everyone has a state pension that is beyond most UK workers wildest dreams, but then everything you buy is way more expensive than here. French people generally don't mind though.
Deva Link said:
Massive big picture, but are they? Ultimately the money to fund them comes from the public.
What's gone on here is that the public have driven the prices down of everything they buy so companies can't afford to fund pensions.
Look at France - everyone has a state pension that is beyond most UK workers wildest dreams, but then everything you buy is way more expensive than here. French people generally don't mind though.
How is the state pension in France funded?What's gone on here is that the public have driven the prices down of everything they buy so companies can't afford to fund pensions.
Look at France - everyone has a state pension that is beyond most UK workers wildest dreams, but then everything you buy is way more expensive than here. French people generally don't mind though.
Mojocvh said:
ETA as an illustration some of the 'established' teachers in her new school now won't speak to her as her 'low ability' set outperformed the one above in this year's GCSE results.... God forbid a girl in her 20s actually teaches well...
Edited by 0a on Thursday 15th September 18:02
Deva Link said:
Bluebarge said:
The point is that the private sector are paying for their own pensions,
Massive big picture, but are they? Ultimately the money to fund them comes from the public.What's gone on here is that the public have driven the prices down of everything they buy so companies can't afford to fund pensions.
Gordon Clown raided pension funds and caused the first fckup, then 13 years of Bliar and Clown incompetence-with-largesse came home to roost and caused another.
Deva Link said:
Welshbeef said:
Well there is no pension fund so there is not a surplus or a defecit from a fund perspective.
No but there's a surplus or deficit based on contributions vs the amount paid in pensions.Welshbeef said:
Instead it's a pay as you go ie current employees paying the pension of pensioners. I guess in 2007 when they did the calculation the pension payments from active staff was higher. However now it is less - or is it. Which is their key question. I'd still say it's in surplus ad they want to hear that answer BUT then it's the accepting the cutting of the benefit for the sake of the national defect which is a different question.
It's reckoned to be in deficit now. But it varies acrosss the public sector. The NHS pension scheme is reckoned to be £2Bn positive.
The future funding is of no consequence to the politicos who made those commitments who have themselves probably retired on a gold plated salary.
Deva Link said:
It's reckoned to be in deficit now.
But it varies acrosss the public sector. The NHS pension scheme is reckoned to be £2Bn positive.
:But it varies acrosss the public sector. The NHS pension scheme is reckoned to be £2Bn positive.
Current contributions being paid in > current benefits being paid out is NOT an appropriate or sensible definition of 'surplus' for a pension fund!
markcoznottz said:
Socialist propaganda. Show us a link to where this is £2bn is located.
Essentially it goes back to public funds.The Government have admitted that increasing public sector workers contributions isn't about pension affordability, it's about reducing the country's deficit. Effectively public sector employees are having their tax rate increased.
Deva link said:
The Government have admitted that increasing public sector workers contributions isn't about pension affordability, it's about reducing the country's deficit. Effectively public sector employees are having their tax rate increased.
Far more accurately, public sector workers are being asked to pay a bit more to reduce the huge subsidy provided by taxpayers!sidicks said:
It's been said before, but worth repeating (in bold):
Current contributions being paid in > current benefits being paid out is NOT an appropriate or sensible definition of 'surplus' for a pension fund!
Sidicks
Oh I fully agree that's called a ponzi scheme. I'm just trying to be devils advocate. Current contributions being paid in > current benefits being paid out is NOT an appropriate or sensible definition of 'surplus' for a pension fund!
Sidicks
Edited by sidicks on Thursday 15th September 17:54
It would work if rather than have a fund they invested it elsewhere which would generate more tax revenue than a fund could. But that's very difficult to accept.
Deva Link said:
sidicks said:
How is the state pension in France funded?
I have no idea.And you clearly know nothing about the French or you'd know that the majority of them are equally tired of their even more bloated public sector than ours that has also left them near enough bankrupt.
elster said:
I really hope that a few of the unions ballot not to have a strike.
It is extremely unlikely as they are a load of numbnuts who follow the person with the loudest megaphone.
the TUC types will strike as they've no direct line for yet more pointless capitulation ... so of course trying to deal with the mess that bliar and blinky left is just the Tories being 'evil' ... It is extremely unlikely as they are a load of numbnuts who follow the person with the loudest megaphone.
that said the time to be afraid is when people like the NAHT and the RCN talk aobut industrial action - for the likes of unison , GMB, unite and Alsef, RMT etc stuck n the 1970s it';s the default position whenever the government does not immediately capitulate
DSM2 said:
Deva Link said:
sidicks said:
How is the state pension in France funded?
I have no idea.And you clearly know nothing about the French or you'd know that the majority of them are equally tired of their even more bloated public sector than ours that has also left them near enough bankrupt.
Amongst my friends and acquaintances I know doctors, firemen, policemen, civil servants, financial advisors, teachers, solicitors and shop workers. Every single one of us is experiencing the same issues: longer hours, reduced benefits, cut backs, pay freezes, and staff losses. Doesn't matter if you work in the public or private sector, the UK economy is struggling and everyone is feeling that pain.
I am defintely left of centre on the politcal compass and I have a lot of respect for many of the employees considering strikes and no doubt many of them have very valid arguments, but I just cannot support anyone striking in the current climate. Now is not the time. Surely now is the time to keep our heads down and work hard until the UK sees some better days.
AND then I get in from work and my daughter gives me a letter from her school asking for a 'contribution' towards the cost of materials for her Design & Technology lessons I can't help but think 'you're 'avin a fking larf'
I am defintely left of centre on the politcal compass and I have a lot of respect for many of the employees considering strikes and no doubt many of them have very valid arguments, but I just cannot support anyone striking in the current climate. Now is not the time. Surely now is the time to keep our heads down and work hard until the UK sees some better days.
AND then I get in from work and my daughter gives me a letter from her school asking for a 'contribution' towards the cost of materials for her Design & Technology lessons I can't help but think 'you're 'avin a f
king larf'Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff