New teachers strike wtf
Discussion
el stovey said:
nadger said:
Whilst I do agree that it isn't an appropriate time to raise this, or an appropriate event to support his point with, he hasn't mentioned money at all! It appears to me that he is raising the point that teaching isn't as 'cushy' a number as some posters on here have been making out.
However it is possible that I'm wrong!
Marxist! However it is possible that I'm wrong!
Oh Marxist, sorry., ;-)
andymadmak said:
Riiiight. So 2 children a day (according to the Mail) have been caught with weapons of some sort over the past 3 years. Total number "almost 1000"
And thats out of a total school population in the period of how many?
One tragic death is not a reason to change ones view of the current abysmal state of education and teaching in this country. Whether you were referring to money, conditions or anything else, it's still not appropriate to use this teachers death as evidence to justify your position.
I suggest you don't look at the "Teacher Stabbed to Death" thread then.And thats out of a total school population in the period of how many?
One tragic death is not a reason to change ones view of the current abysmal state of education and teaching in this country. Whether you were referring to money, conditions or anything else, it's still not appropriate to use this teachers death as evidence to justify your position.
According to your logic, neither is it appropriate for you to say that the state of education and teaching is abysmal. You should have told me what I said was inappropriate and left it at that.
As I said, the numbers quoted are the tip of the iceberg. If you're a parent, it's your kind of attitude towards teachers that's part of the problem - lack of respect towards teachers breeds a lack of respect for them in your children.
Mr Snap said:
It's nothing to do with the money, it's to do with the constant denigration of teachers here on PH when few people have a clue what some teachers have to deal with on a daily basis.
It's only because teachers are always whinging about how difficult their job is.People who do bar work get a fraction of the pay, have to put up with violent thugs all the time (adults, not children), work much longer unsociable hours and with no cushty pension or holidays.
Do you constantly hear bar workers whinging about their job?
No.
Do they get denigrated on PH?
No.
See the pattern emerging?
Bacon Is Proof said:
Mr Snap said:
It's nothing to do with the money, it's to do with the constant denigration of teachers here on PH when few people have a clue what some teachers have to deal with on a daily basis.
It's only because teachers are always whinging about how difficult their job is.People who do bar work get a fraction of the pay, have to put up with violent thugs all the time (adults, not children), work much longer unsociable hours and with no cushty pension or holidays.
Do you constantly hear bar workers whinging about their job?
No.
Do they get denigrated on PH?
No.
See the pattern emerging?
However if you look at the thread about people on the take, there are examples of bar staff being denigrated!
nadger said:
It's a valid point, but hardly a fair comparison!
However if you look at the thread about people on the take, there are examples of bar staff being denigrated!
I don't see why it isn't a fair comparison.However if you look at the thread about people on the take, there are examples of bar staff being denigrated!
I'm sure if bar staff started to whinge about their jobs PH would denigrate them, and if teachers started to steal then they would be denigrated for that too.
Bacon Is Proof said:
nadger said:
It's a valid point, but hardly a fair comparison!
However if you look at the thread about people on the take, there are examples of bar staff being denigrated!
I don't see why it isn't a fair comparison.However if you look at the thread about people on the take, there are examples of bar staff being denigrated!
I'm sure if bar staff started to whinge about their jobs PH would denigrate them, and if teachers started to steal then they would be denigrated for that too.
I don't think I've ever read a thread on here by a teacher unilaterally whining about their job. I have read many tiresome threads started by those who accuse teachers of being workshy, greedy and onto an easy life. Only then do the teachers feel the need to defend themselves from such accusations.
Bacon Is Proof said:
It's only because teachers are always whinging about how difficult their job is.
People who do bar work get a fraction of the pay, have to put up with violent thugs all the time (adults, not children), work much longer unsociable hours and with no cushty pension or holidays.
Do you constantly hear bar workers whinging about their job?
No.
Do they get denigrated on PH?
No.
See the pattern emerging?
Bar workers have the advantage of being able throw awkward customers out on the street.People who do bar work get a fraction of the pay, have to put up with violent thugs all the time (adults, not children), work much longer unsociable hours and with no cushty pension or holidays.
Do you constantly hear bar workers whinging about their job?
No.
Do they get denigrated on PH?
No.
See the pattern emerging?
If you're a teacher, then if you get an awkward customer their Mum or Dad threatens to slap you (and the police won't be summoned because it'd look bad for the school).
The moment you start valuing teachers, as opposed to constantly calling them lazy, malingering workshy 
s with a ludicrous holiday entitlement is the moment that you start getting a decent education system, because being valued is what makes good capable people want to be part of something
s with a ludicrous holiday entitlement is the moment that you start getting a decent education system, because being valued is what makes good capable people want to be part of somethingJoey Ramone said:
The moment you start valuing teachers, as opposed to constantly calling them lazy, malingering workshy s with a ludicrous holiday entitlement is the moment that you start getting a decent education system, because being valued is what makes good capable people want to be part of something
Its true, if I worked with these people I'd need more holiday not less.s with a ludicrous holiday entitlement is the moment that you start getting a decent education system, because being valued is what makes good capable people want to be part of somethinghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzdCipetV0I
Bacon Is Proof said:
nadger said:
So you don't think that the level of responsibility that teachers have compared with bar staff makes it an unreasonable comparison?!
I think it's commensurate.I've done both. To compare the two occupations only points up your degree of ignorance. It took about 30 minutes to grasp the salient features of bar work - I'm not saying it's easy, but it's not complex. I've spent over thirty years developing my teaching skills and, even though I only teach privately paying adults these days, I can still find myself completely flummoxed by the demands of teaching.
Or did you need to be taught how to pour beer down your neck? (In which case, all bets are off).
Why would you even attempt to link yesterday's tragedy to some teachers voting to strike?
And whilst I'm pleased that after leaving teaching you've gone on to earn more money, we all know that there a significant numbers of teachers that wouldn't make it out of the profession.
These strikes are not about safeguarding or personal safety. They are about preserving pay, pensions and avoiding performance management.
And whilst I'm pleased that after leaving teaching you've gone on to earn more money, we all know that there a significant numbers of teachers that wouldn't make it out of the profession.
These strikes are not about safeguarding or personal safety. They are about preserving pay, pensions and avoiding performance management.
RedTrident said:
Why would you even attempt to link yesterday's tragedy to some teachers voting to strike?
And whilst I'm pleased that after leaving teaching you've gone on to earn more money, we all know that there a significant numbers of teachers that wouldn't make it out of the profession.
These strikes are not about safeguarding or personal safety. They are about preserving pay, pensions and avoiding performance management.
How do you 'know' that? I'm not saying you're wrong for every individual, but surely you can recognise the huge generalisation in your statement!And whilst I'm pleased that after leaving teaching you've gone on to earn more money, we all know that there a significant numbers of teachers that wouldn't make it out of the profession.
These strikes are not about safeguarding or personal safety. They are about preserving pay, pensions and avoiding performance management.
As for avo.iding performance management, it's a bit late! I've been subjected to pm since I started teaching 10 yrs ago!
Bacon Is Proof said:
nadger said:
It's a valid point, but hardly a fair comparison!
However if you look at the thread about people on the take, there are examples of bar staff being denigrated!
I don't see why it isn't a fair comparison.However if you look at the thread about people on the take, there are examples of bar staff being denigrated!
I'm sure if bar staff started to whinge about their jobs PH would denigrate them, and if teachers started to steal then they would be denigrated for that too.
These threads about teachers are all started by people who are not teachers complaining about teachers. Not teachers complaining about their job. Any complaints by teachers are usually in response to the tide of criticism by people who clearly don't know what it's like being a teacher.
Bar staff aren't on here whinging because A) it's usually not a career and B) People aren't constantly starting threads complaining about them.
If there were threads about IT workers being useless and lazy then there would be loads of IT workers on here whinging about how difficult it is and how other people don't know what they're talking about.
Teaching is a hard job and the money is rubbish. Constantly having to deal with parents who have some of the attitudes shown on this thread must be intolerable.
nadger said:
RedTrident said:
These strikes are not about safeguarding or personal safety. They are about preserving pay, pensions and avoiding performance management.
How do you 'know' that? I'm not saying you're wrong for every individual, but surely you can recognise the huge generalisation in your statement!!I accept that from tomorrow they might jump on Mr Snap's bandwagon and include statements about safety as part of their campaign.
RedTrident said:
Why would you even attempt to link yesterday's tragedy to some teachers voting to strike?
And whilst I'm pleased that after leaving teaching you've gone on to earn more money, we all know that there a significant numbers of teachers that wouldn't make it out of the profession.
These strikes are not about safeguarding or personal safety. They are about preserving pay, pensions and avoiding performance management.
Because working conditions are relevant and having to deal with stabby children is part of the working conditions. As a teacher, I've been hit innumerable times, threatened with a knife and spat on, and the culprits have rarely got anything more than a telling off from their parents and the police have never been brought in. Would you tolerate that in your place of work? And whilst I'm pleased that after leaving teaching you've gone on to earn more money, we all know that there a significant numbers of teachers that wouldn't make it out of the profession.
These strikes are not about safeguarding or personal safety. They are about preserving pay, pensions and avoiding performance management.
I don't agree with the strike but strikes are a typical symptom of a poorly valued/managed workforce. As a group, most teachers would be happy with their lot if they felt valued (not fawned over) for what they do. Telling them that they're greedy, lazy, shirkers is pointlessly non-constructive.
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