Mexican Drugs Gangsters Do Not Mess About...
Discussion
Jimbeaux said:
Our border states deal with this each and every day.
I must say, that would make me wonder what you're doing sending people over to Iraq and Afghanistan.Not that these places didn't need a bit of fixing too, but isn't it about time to step in Mexico?
Or am I being naive about the political/diplomatic situation between the US and Mexico?
AJS- said:
I must say, that would make me wonder what you're doing sending people over to Iraq and Afghanistan.
Not that these places didn't need a bit of fixing too, but isn't it about time to step in Mexico?
Or am I being naive about the political/diplomatic situation between the US and Mexico?
As long as the violence stays south of the Rio Grande I daresay the Americans don't see a need to become too involved. I am sure they are 'advising' behind the scenes. Not that these places didn't need a bit of fixing too, but isn't it about time to step in Mexico?
Or am I being naive about the political/diplomatic situation between the US and Mexico?
dirty boy said:
tongue firmly in cheek
If I remember correctly they did something in the US where dealers paid tax.. let me find a link...here's all I could find;
"In the state of Kansas, "The fact that dealing marijuana and controlled substances is illegal does not exempt it from taxation. Therefore drug dealers are required by law to purchase drug tax stamps."
ETA: Here we are: http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/charleston/even...
Most of the Guns in Mexico come from USA anyway - http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningn...
There is a sense of lawlessness there - if the shootings start and you may be in the crossfire, keep away from the police, as they are shot at first.
There are several levels of Police in Mexico, from street, traffic, inner city, special forces and the Presidents Elite force.
Quite simply at ALL levels, you should not upset, criticise, threaten or treat anyone you come into contact with in Mexico.
As an outsider, you don't know who you are dealing with. Guns and violence rule in certain places, they are an accepted form of weapon and considered the cleanest kill.
My feiends and colleagues in northern Mexico tell me that most of the gang culture is based on protection rather than agression. If everybody let each other get on with it there would be a sense of equilibrium.
BUT - When you have a culture of low or no income and a high value commodity = Drugs, there will always be someone who takes advantage.
As with any commodity, The demand from the customer is the main driver of business. President Calderon has waged a way against the Drug cartel with his elite force, with some success
However, when even the lowest link in the chain is prpared to shoot and kill someone - attacking the top guys doesn't work. Government ministers, lawyers and just about anyone working in a civil position at some point will fear for their lives.
Calderon has recently given a speech in US :
If the United States can’t cut demand for drugs, Calderon said, it must look for alternative solutions.
“We are living in the same building. And our neighbor is the largest consumer of drugs in the world. And everybody wants to sell him drugs through our doors and our windows,” the Mexican president said. “If the consumption of drugs cannot be limited, then decision-makers must seek more solutions — including market alternatives — in order to reduce the astronomical earnings of criminal organizations.”
Who knows if there will ever be a solution...?
There is a sense of lawlessness there - if the shootings start and you may be in the crossfire, keep away from the police, as they are shot at first.
There are several levels of Police in Mexico, from street, traffic, inner city, special forces and the Presidents Elite force.
Quite simply at ALL levels, you should not upset, criticise, threaten or treat anyone you come into contact with in Mexico.
As an outsider, you don't know who you are dealing with. Guns and violence rule in certain places, they are an accepted form of weapon and considered the cleanest kill.
My feiends and colleagues in northern Mexico tell me that most of the gang culture is based on protection rather than agression. If everybody let each other get on with it there would be a sense of equilibrium.
BUT - When you have a culture of low or no income and a high value commodity = Drugs, there will always be someone who takes advantage.
As with any commodity, The demand from the customer is the main driver of business. President Calderon has waged a way against the Drug cartel with his elite force, with some success
However, when even the lowest link in the chain is prpared to shoot and kill someone - attacking the top guys doesn't work. Government ministers, lawyers and just about anyone working in a civil position at some point will fear for their lives.
Calderon has recently given a speech in US :
If the United States can’t cut demand for drugs, Calderon said, it must look for alternative solutions.
“We are living in the same building. And our neighbor is the largest consumer of drugs in the world. And everybody wants to sell him drugs through our doors and our windows,” the Mexican president said. “If the consumption of drugs cannot be limited, then decision-makers must seek more solutions — including market alternatives — in order to reduce the astronomical earnings of criminal organizations.”
Who knows if there will ever be a solution...?
Edited by bridgdav on Saturday 24th September 17:34
Ayahuasca said:
Friday's toll: http://www.blogdelnarco.com/ GRISLY
That's a bit more than grisly!Just as a warning, the first thing you see if you open the link is a head not attached to a body in a complete mess.
nellyleelephant said:
Ayahuasca said:
Friday's toll: http://www.blogdelnarco.com/ GRISLY
That's a bit more than grisly!Just as a warning, the first thing you see if you open the link is a head not attached to a body in a complete mess.
Four Litre said:
jeez - nearly returned my dinner opening that... look like hes been attacked with either a chainsaw or an angle grinder! Either way its not good.
It says his face was skinned. They sometimes do that, then put the skins on footballs and kick them around. Got to give them points for creativity.Edited by Ayahuasca on Sunday 25th September 00:34
Ayahuasca said:
Four Litre said:
jeez - nearly returned my dinner opening that... look like hes been attacked with either a chainsaw or an angle grinder! Either way its not good.
It says his face was skinned. They sometimes do that, then put the skins on footballs and kick them around. Got to give them points for creativity.Edited by Ayahuasca on Sunday 25th September 00:34
If this recent publicity of the horrors in Mexico have one benefit, I hope it's to bring home to those who enjoy the odd dabble in drugs the effects of their indulgence. You buy Fair Trade Tea and do the odd line at weekends? Welcome to the world you're funding.
BUT: It is clear that the war on Drugs isn't working. I would love governments to stand united and do something sensible and coherent to fight the problems drugs generate. And let’s not be under any illusions: Drugs themselves are not the problem. The Money associated with drugs is the problem. The way to tackle the drugs problem is to take the money out of the hands of the criminals who supply them by bypassing the production and supply routes completely, and IMO introducing government control over the entire operation (and only because I couldn't bear Big Pharma or other "profit making" enterprises to be in charge).
The hypocrisy over some drugs being illegal and others not stands no scrutiny: Why is a Joint illegal but 5 pints on a Friday night not? One is statistically far more likely to lead to your death than the other, and it's not the illegal one. Same with MDMA - Illegal and it once (helped) kill a girl, but Cigarettes are highly addictive and kill thousands but the government is happy to take its cut and oversee their sale.
I have no "vested interest" by the way. The strongest thing I enjoy is a good Islay Malt but it's clear you are never going to stop people ingesting mind altering substances. It's a human trait as old as the hills. The problems generated by a relatively harmless white powder are by and large man-made and I'm of the opinion with forwards thinking they could be solved or managed far better than they are at present.
Any war on drugs needs to be fought not by force, but by intelligent actions. As long as cartels earn enough money to buy weapons, pay off informants, and murder their opponents including judges, politicians and rivals, you will not win. Take away their money, and you take away their power.
BUT: It is clear that the war on Drugs isn't working. I would love governments to stand united and do something sensible and coherent to fight the problems drugs generate. And let’s not be under any illusions: Drugs themselves are not the problem. The Money associated with drugs is the problem. The way to tackle the drugs problem is to take the money out of the hands of the criminals who supply them by bypassing the production and supply routes completely, and IMO introducing government control over the entire operation (and only because I couldn't bear Big Pharma or other "profit making" enterprises to be in charge).
The hypocrisy over some drugs being illegal and others not stands no scrutiny: Why is a Joint illegal but 5 pints on a Friday night not? One is statistically far more likely to lead to your death than the other, and it's not the illegal one. Same with MDMA - Illegal and it once (helped) kill a girl, but Cigarettes are highly addictive and kill thousands but the government is happy to take its cut and oversee their sale.
I have no "vested interest" by the way. The strongest thing I enjoy is a good Islay Malt but it's clear you are never going to stop people ingesting mind altering substances. It's a human trait as old as the hills. The problems generated by a relatively harmless white powder are by and large man-made and I'm of the opinion with forwards thinking they could be solved or managed far better than they are at present.
Any war on drugs needs to be fought not by force, but by intelligent actions. As long as cartels earn enough money to buy weapons, pay off informants, and murder their opponents including judges, politicians and rivals, you will not win. Take away their money, and you take away their power.
ExChrispy Porker said:
That presupposes that those involved in the drugs trade would be nice people if it weren't for the drugs trade.
I think it is naive to think that a major reduction in crime will result from legalising drugs. The baddies will simply move on to something else.
But if that something else is less profitable, they have a far lower impact...I think it is naive to think that a major reduction in crime will result from legalising drugs. The baddies will simply move on to something else.
WeirdNeville said:
BUT: It is clear that the war on Drugs isn't working. I would love governments to stand united and do something sensible and coherent to fight the problems drugs generate. And let’s not be under any illusions: Drugs themselves are not the problem. The Money associated with drugs is the problem. The way to tackle the drugs problem is to take the money out of the hands of the criminals who supply them by bypassing the production and supply routes completely, and IMO introducing government control over the entire operation (and only because I couldn't bear Big Pharma or other "profit making" enterprises to be in charge).
At danger of veering off topic, I find the above very strange.As you point out it is more the prohibition on drugs, and the unregulated and vastly profitable market this creates, that causes the problems rather than the drugs themselves. Why are governments, the very people who prohibit drugs and hence cause a large portion of these problems to begin with, better placed to carry on the business than are profit making companies that would move in or spring up to satisfy that market?
Morally, economically and practically I would much rather profit making companies sell the legal drugs we consume.
Ayahuasca said:
Friday's toll: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX GRISLY
Despite the warning of "GRISLY" I can deal with seeing pictures of dead people however the top of that blog now has a video of two guys being decapitated one with a chainsaw and one with a knife. I hate to be an arbiter of whats reasonable to post but that is f
king disgusting, would it be too much to suggest that link and quotes of it are removed please.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff