Jimmy Savile

[Grandad Gaz]

WinstonWolf said:

NinjaPower said:

Randy Winkman said:

The Hypno-Toad said:

What it did show once again was what a truly horrible and incredibly devious man he really was.

And that for a long time, dirty blokes touching up young girls wasn't actually considered that big a deal.

This is true.

Up until last year, I used to work with a woman who will be in her 50's now, and she used to joke at work about "what the lads used to do to me years ago wouldn't be allowed these days".

Turns out that when she was in her 20's and 30's the guys she worked in an almost all-male workplace with would have no hesitations about groping her for fun on an almost daily basis. Grabbing her breasts suchlike.

She laughs about it now, but in all seriousness, she was repeatedly sexually assaulted. There isn't really any other way to put it.

Yet she would probably disagree with you.

True. That attitude was the norm in those days. You only have to watch some of the old "Carry On" films to realize that.

[John145]

Grandad Gaz said:

WinstonWolf said:

NinjaPower said:

Randy Winkman said:

The Hypno-Toad said:

What it did show once again was what a truly horrible and incredibly devious man he really was.

And that for a long time, dirty blokes touching up young girls wasn't actually considered that big a deal.

This is true.

Up until last year, I used to work with a woman who will be in her 50's now, and she used to joke at work about "what the lads used to do to me years ago wouldn't be allowed these days".

Turns out that when she was in her 20's and 30's the guys she worked in an almost all-male workplace with would have no hesitations about groping her for fun on an almost daily basis. Grabbing her breasts suchlike.

She laughs about it now, but in all seriousness, she was repeatedly sexually assaulted. There isn't really any other way to put it.

Yet she would probably disagree with you.

True. That attitude was the norm in those days. You only have to watch some of the old "Carry On" films to realize that.

And also why today we have male dominated industries. The norm =\= acceptable

We are backward compared to our European competitors for female equality.

[majordad]

Brexit will cure that ?

[Halb]

Grandad Gaz said:

True. That attitude was the norm in those days. You only have to watch some of the old "Carry On" films to realize that.

Or read the feminism thread.

[anonymous-user]

WinstonWolf said:

NinjaPower said:

Randy Winkman said:

The Hypno-Toad said:

What it did show once again was what a truly horrible and incredibly devious man he really was.

And that for a long time, dirty blokes touching up young girls wasn't actually considered that big a deal.

This is true.

Up until last year, I used to work with a woman who will be in her 50's now, and she used to joke at work about "what the lads used to do to me years ago wouldn't be allowed these days".

Turns out that when she was in her 20's and 30's the guys she worked in an almost all-male workplace with would have no hesitations about groping her for fun on an almost daily basis. Grabbing her breasts suchlike.

She laughs about it now, but in all seriousness, she was repeatedly sexually assaulted. There isn't really any other way to put it.

Yet she would probably disagree with you.

She certainly would.

It was just boys being boys in her opinion. Lucky for her she had that attitude. If she was a girl that didn't appreciate the 'attention', then her working life would have been hell and she would probably have been too scared to say anything about it.

[chris watton]

Halb said:

Grandad Gaz said:

True. That attitude was the norm in those days. You only have to watch some of the old "Carry On" films to realize that.

Or read the feminism thread.

At one of my first workplaces, after leaving school, there were a few of us of similar age (17/18), and the woman there did everything to get our attention and flirt, even pulling their bras up to show their baps. This behaviour was quite new to me. The late 20's/early 30's woman who did this ended up having sex (or rape, as it would be called these days, I am sure) with some of my similar aged workmates at parties, but it was all good fun, IIRC. I mention this because I remember thinking about the Carry On films, and stuff like Benny Hill, and thinking this behavior must be normal, for both sexes.

Sometimes, it's not just the men who are sex pests - although to be clear, I think that what the likes of Saville did to minors was evil, and it is a shame he was never dragged kicking and screaming over the coals for his crimes when alive, and it is sickening that the establishment clearly knew but let the monster get away with it.

[Halmyre]

hepy said:

desolate said:

Gerry Sadowitz had a routine about it as well
Must be over 20 years ago.

A book by Irvine Welsh alluded to it around the same time. Didn't name him, but made it very obvious it was Saville.

I'm sure the Sadowitz routine was very family friendly!

Gerry Sadowitz could do a straight reading of Beatrix Potter's books and it still wouldn't be family friendly!

[Vocal Minority]

chris watton said:

The late 20's/early 30's woman who did this ended up having sex (or rape, as it would be called these days, I am sure)

This statement, is fking pathetic.

Violence against women is common place and here you are on the internet with some half arsed complex that you are being picked on because its not like the good old days.

If the women wanted to have sex - it was consensual sex, just as it is now.

Trivialising rape 'I am sure' because of your PC complex (being decent to people, its PC gone mad!) and because you can't just slap your secretaries arse and get away with it 'like in the good old days', is stupid.

What Saville did to adults was pretty bloody horrible too - not just minors.

[chris watton]

Vocal Minority said:

chris watton said:

The late 20's/early 30's woman who did this ended up having sex (or rape, as it would be called these days, I am sure)

This statement, is fking pathetic.

Violence against women is common place and here you are on the internet with some half arsed complex that you are being picked on because its not like the good old days.

If the women wanted to have sex - it was consensual sex, just as it is now.

Trivialising rape 'I am sure' because of your PC complex (being decent to people, its PC gone mad!) and because you can't just slap your secretaries arse and get away with it 'like in the good old days', is stupid.

What Saville did to adults was pretty bloody horrible too - not just minors.

Please, jump back in your little box.

I wasn't condoning anything. Please, point out where I said it was OK?

[Vocal Minority]

Go on then - enlighten me

'rape as I am sure it would be called these days' - please do enlighten me as to what you meant by this when talking about a consensual work fling?

I know you weren't condoning it - but you certainly sound like you are trivialising accusations

[chris watton]

Vocal Minority said:

Go on then - enlighten me

'rape as I am sure it would be called these days' - please do enlighten me as to what you meant by this when talking about a consensual work fling?

I know you weren't condoning it - but you certainly sound like you are trivialising accusations

I was responding to attitudes at the time, regarding the likes of Carry On films (nothing to do with Savile, so a tangent), and sharing my experience of this attitude going both ways at times. That is all - hardly deserving of your pretentious diatribe, was it?

[Vocal Minority]

I apologise that I have mis-interpreted what you said Chris, if you were referring to these women actually being assaulted, I retract what I said.

Though if protesting that rape is trivialised (even if it is a mistake - and I admit it was) is pretentious, then I guess I am pretentious.

Edited by Vocal Minority on Wednesday 5th October 12:12

[WinstonWolf]

I was watching a documentary on the female ferry pilots (Spitfire Women) during the war. These women flew pretty much everything from the factories to the bases. One quote that stood out was " Times were different then, I was just happy that I was considered pretty enough to have my bottom pinched".

[Welshbeef]

Vocal Minority said:

chris watton said:

The late 20's/early 30's woman who did this ended up having sex (or rape, as it would be called these days, I am sure)

This statement, is fking pathetic.

Violence against women is common place and here you are on the internet with some half arsed complex that you are being picked on because its not like the good old days.

If the women wanted to have sex - it was consensual sex, just as it is now.

Trivialising rape 'I am sure' because of your PC complex (being decent to people, its PC gone mad!) and because you can't just slap your secretaries arse and get away with it 'like in the good old days', is stupid.

What Saville did to adults was pretty bloody horrible too - not just minors.

What about Charles Lutwitge Dodgeson? His favoured past time was painting nude pics of young children.
It is not clear if he did or didn't do anything else but it was a different era imagine that happening today?

[DP1]

Welshbeef said:

What about Charles Lutwitge Dodgeson? His favoured past time was painting nude pics of young children.
It is not clear if he did or didn't do anything else but it was a different era imagine that happening today?

I am amazed that Germain Greer did not get more criticism about her book 'The beautiful Boy' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beautiful_Boy.

I can only imagine if some guy had published a similar book about young girls.

[thetapeworm]

Local press reporting that his former Leeds penthouse is going to be knocked down so they can start again

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/jimmy-s...

And this is the Rightmove listing I saved from one of the times it came up if anyone wants a nose around before it was gutted:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...

YEP said:

Some gutting of the property – which was bought by Savile at the height of his fame in the 1970s – was carried out in 2014. But it was not until April this year that a firm called Ennerdale Apartments won planning permission for the redevelopment of the rooftop flat at the six-storey Lakeview Court building.

A document submitted as part of the successful planning application to Leeds City Council said the work would see the demolition of the penthouse and “construction of a new [lightweight] steel framed structure”.

Permission was also granted by the council for changes to other sections of Lakeview Court, including the installation of new external insulation and the demolition of six single storey garages. A council report on the application said that, although “the rooftop flat will be enlarged as a result of this proposal”, there would be minimal impact on “visual amenity in general”.

As previously reported by the Yorkshire Evening Post, Savile’s flat was sold to a company called CXI 92 Ltd for £250,000 in February 2013. Land Registry documents show the property changed hands again in early 2014, this time for £300,000. The flat is perhaps best known for hosting the weekly meetings of Leeds-born Savile’s inner circle, dubbed The Friday Morning Club.

Once regarded as a luxury residence with some of the finest views in Leeds, its furnishings had grown tatty and outdated by the time of the star’s death. Savile was exposed as a paedophile in 2012 and the following year a joint Scotland Yard and NSPCC report branded him one of the UK’s most prolific known sexual predators.

A string of tributes to the entertainer’s career and fundraising exploits were removed after his crimes were revealed. His name was taken off a roll of honour-style list at Leeds Civic Hall while city centre conference venue Saviles Hall was rebranded as New Dock Hall. Savile’s elaborate gravestone was also removed from Woodlands Cemetery in Scarborough.

Given the location and the potential it could have it's no shock they are doing this as it looked to be a nightmare renovation due to it all being so dated, it's always going to be the site of where he lived though no matter what you do with it.

[The Hypno-Toad]

thetapeworm said:

Local press reporting that his former Leeds penthouse is going to be knocked down so they can start again

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/jimmy-s...

And this is the Rightmove listing I saved from one of the times it came up if anyone wants a nose around before it was gutted:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...

Given the location and the potential it could have it's no shock they are doing this as it looked to be a nightmare renovation due to it all being so dated, it's always going to be the site of where he lived though no matter what you do with it.

Christ, it's hardly the lair of the international playboy he liked to claim he was, is it? Looks like a flat from a sheltered living complex where last occupant had become a bit 'befuddled'.

As you say, even once you've gutted the place you'll still smell cigar smoke and hear the rattling of jewellery as soon as you walk in .

[Vaud]

The Hypno-Toad said:

Christ, it's hardly the lair of the international playboy he liked to claim he was, is it? Looks like a flat from a sheltered living complex where last occupant had become a bit 'befuddled'.

As you say, even once you've gutted the place you'll still smell cigar smoke and hear the rattling of jewellery as soon as you walk in .

He was always local to the area and was often seen jogging in the park. It's quite a nice bit of Leeds. He had the money, he just spent on many other things (some good, many bad!)

Some of his philanthropy was worth while. I would be the last to defend him but not all of it was linked to his abuses, though much of it did buy him credibility and access.

Edited by Vaud on Tuesday 18th October 13:21

[98elise]

My brother is director of a local company, and once in a while he or one of the other directors will appear on BBC local news. They tend to call when they want a local business owners view on some local issue or other.

Around the time this was all kicking off one of the directors was asked to do a piece on the news (on a completely unrelated matter). My brother took a photo of the TV, then carefully photo shopped the caption to say "Jimmy Savile Supporter" rather than "Local Business Owner".

He then sent it to the director saying "I think they messed up your caption!" The guy nearly had a cardiac thinking it was real

[thetapeworm]

The Hypno-Toad said:

thetapeworm said:

Local press reporting that his former Leeds penthouse is going to be knocked down so they can start again

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/jimmy-s...

And this is the Rightmove listing I saved from one of the times it came up if anyone wants a nose around before it was gutted:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...

Given the location and the potential it could have it's no shock they are doing this as it looked to be a nightmare renovation due to it all being so dated, it's always going to be the site of where he lived though no matter what you do with it.

Christ, it's hardly the lair of the international playboy he liked to claim he was, is it? Looks like a flat from a sheltered living complex where last occupant had become a bit 'befuddled'.

As you say, even once you've gutted the place you'll still smell cigar smoke and hear the rattling of jewellery as soon as you walk in .

Not a fan of chrome conservatories and freestyle kitchen planning then?

The other "penthouse" was up for £500,000 in 2007 and is considerably more modern inside, compare and contrast:

www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.ht...

Not where I'd put half a million of my money if I had it to spend on a property but it shows how different things can be when just a wall of shame apart.

I think old Jim was number 22, it's interesting to see the values of 20 Lake View Court change:

22 May 2015 £180,000
15 Sep 2009 £195,000
26 May 2006 £260,000
19 Oct 2000 £127,500

He died in 2011 so the 2009 valuation must just have been as a result of the slump but I wonder if the more recent drop has anything to do with the smell permeating through the floors and the associations with Savile.