The Duggan Gun?
Discussion
carinaman said:
The way I heard it on BBC radio was that the IPCC said they were correct to shoot him as he'd thrown the gun away.
I thought that use of force had to consider the possibilities of violence or escape?
If the gun is no longer in his hand it's not a threat is it?
"A lengthy investigation has found that Mark Duggan, whose fatal shooting by police in north London sparked riots, was probably throwing a handgun away when he was killed."I thought that use of force had to consider the possibilities of violence or escape?
If the gun is no longer in his hand it's not a threat is it?
Throwing, not thrown. Raising your arm, holding a gun, in the vicinity of armed officers, hardly surprising.
carinaman said:
The way I heard it on BBC radio was that the IPCC said they were correct to shoot him as he'd thrown the gun away.
I thought that use of force had to consider the possibilities of violence or escape?
If the gun is no longer in his hand it's not a threat is it?
unless he had another gun ?I thought that use of force had to consider the possibilities of violence or escape?
If the gun is no longer in his hand it's not a threat is it?
loafer123 said:
carinaman said:
The way I heard it on BBC radio was that the IPCC said they were correct to shoot him as he'd thrown the gun away.
I thought that use of force had to consider the possibilities of violence or escape?
If the gun is no longer in his hand it's not a threat is it?
"A lengthy investigation has found that Mark Duggan, whose fatal shooting by police in north London sparked riots, was probably throwing a handgun away when he was killed."I thought that use of force had to consider the possibilities of violence or escape?
If the gun is no longer in his hand it's not a threat is it?
Throwing, not thrown. Raising your arm, holding a gun, in the vicinity of armed officers, hardly surprising.
Nothing like concrete facts to stem the inevitable backlash.
The over-arching lesson is don't carry illegal firearms. And if you must, don't have it in your hand immediately before / at the time you're being stopped by armed police.
This isn't a tragic misjudgment like Harry Stanley or set of improbable circumstances coming together like Menezes, the only person to blame here is Duggan.
No, because they're (understandably) irrationally emotional. It's less painful to blame anyone other than Duggan.
This isn't a tragic misjudgment like Harry Stanley or set of improbable circumstances coming together like Menezes, the only person to blame here is Duggan.
NicD said:
La Liga said:
An actual relevant new post: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32041119
Will the family accept this?La Liga said:
The over-arching lesson is don't carry illegal firearms. And if you must, don't have it in your hand immediately before / at the time you're being stopped by armed police.
This isn't a tragic misjudgment like Harry Stanley or set of improbable circumstances coming together like Menezes, the only person to blame here is Duggan.
No, because they're (understandably) irrationally emotional. It's less painful to blame anyone other than Duggan.
If they keep at it long enough, they may get a public apology (pass the sick bag)This isn't a tragic misjudgment like Harry Stanley or set of improbable circumstances coming together like Menezes, the only person to blame here is Duggan.
NicD said:
La Liga said:
An actual relevant new post: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-32041119
Will the family accept this?La Liga said:
The over-arching lesson is don't carry illegal firearms. And if you must, don't have it in your hand immediately before / at the time you're being stopped by armed police.
This isn't a tragic misjudgment like Harry Stanley or set of improbable circumstances coming together like Menezes, the only person to blame here is Duggan.
That sums it up for me.This isn't a tragic misjudgment like Harry Stanley or set of improbable circumstances coming together like Menezes, the only person to blame here is Duggan.
Wave a gun, around the time of, or being in the presence of, armed police and DIE. Simple.
(since when has it become the job of people hired to protect society and enforce laws to second guess the actions of people in the midst of breaking the law? It's not).
More trash removed from the human race. Result!
(since when has it become the job of people hired to protect society and enforce laws to second guess the actions of people in the midst of breaking the law? It's not).
More trash removed from the human race. Result!
Mezzanine said:
I like 'probably'.
Nothing like concrete facts to stem the inevitable backlash.
Like they said Duggan had shot a police officer, when it was a police officer that shot another police officer?Nothing like concrete facts to stem the inevitable backlash.
Because it's difficult getting your facts right when you're a highly trained and experienced police officer. That and the police being run by PR Depts.
But Dale Cregan that's killed people is in a prison organising drug deals on a mobile phone?
Isn't the State and public sector masters of spin celebrating the anniversary of Magna Carta? Doesn't it say something about being judged by our peers?
Dale Cregan's not black is he?
Duggan should have stayed sat in the car. With the cab driver witness perhaps he wouldn't have been shot?
I'm not sure where getting shot having thrown the gun away sits with the handwritten notes that appeared online?
The lesson is that the police are our peers and they can judge us, and courts and justice are optional. Does that go hand in hand with Grayling's moves to restrict access to justice and to make it more expensive?
Isn't the State and public sector masters of spin celebrating the anniversary of Magna Carta? Doesn't it say something about being judged by our peers?
Dale Cregan's not black is he?
Duggan should have stayed sat in the car. With the cab driver witness perhaps he wouldn't have been shot?
I'm not sure where getting shot having thrown the gun away sits with the handwritten notes that appeared online?
The lesson is that the police are our peers and they can judge us, and courts and justice are optional. Does that go hand in hand with Grayling's moves to restrict access to justice and to make it more expensive?
carinaman said:
But Dale Cregan that's killed people is in a prison organising drug deals on a mobile phone?
Isn't the State and public sector masters of spin celebrating the anniversary of Magna Carta? Doesn't it say something about being judged by our peers?
Dale Cregan's not black is he?
Duggan should have stayed sat in the car. With the cab driver witness perhaps he wouldn't have been shot?
I'm not sure where getting shot having thrown the gun away sits with the handwritten notes that appeared online?
The lesson is that the police are our peers and they can judge us, and courts and justice are optional. Does that go hand in hand with Grayling's moves to restrict access to justice and to make it more expensive?
Didn't Dale Cregan walk into a police station and give himself up? Rather different.Isn't the State and public sector masters of spin celebrating the anniversary of Magna Carta? Doesn't it say something about being judged by our peers?
Dale Cregan's not black is he?
Duggan should have stayed sat in the car. With the cab driver witness perhaps he wouldn't have been shot?
I'm not sure where getting shot having thrown the gun away sits with the handwritten notes that appeared online?
The lesson is that the police are our peers and they can judge us, and courts and justice are optional. Does that go hand in hand with Grayling's moves to restrict access to justice and to make it more expensive?
As others have said, Duggan was a nasty, violent gangster and who, when Police attempted to arrest him, waved a gun about and took the consequences.
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