More Argie Bargie
Discussion
kingofdbrits said:
Argentina announced last month that it intends to buy 24 Saab Gripen fighters, and they're bloomin good planes. Thankfully the UK has blocked the sale, however Brazil has just ordered loads too so not sure if Argentina will try to circumvent our attempts to block Argentina by buying through a.n.other?
The Brazilian military is there as a defense against Argentina. Has been going on for ages. South America had its own Dreadnought race in the early 20th century. The US built 2 battleships for Argentina, the UK built 2 battleships for Brazil and also 2 battleships for Chile, although we took one over temprarily for WWI and one permanently as a conversion to an aircraft carrier. They tool up purely to get ahead of their neighbour.They all mistrust each other down there. If oil rich Brazil are buying new expensive kit it'll force Argentina to do something they can't afford to do with dire consequences to their crumbling economy.
Esseesse said:
You may well be right. And I may have wrongly presumed that since they're British, NATO rules would extend to them.
Apparently The Falkland Island's are not covered by NATO NATO said:
Article 5.
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.
Article 6.
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France (2), on the territory of or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.
We did receive help from NATO allies though, including satellite intelligence from the USA, the latest air to air missiles and even the offer of a carrier if we wished (although Margaret Thatcher politely turned that down as she wanted it to be a British only operation)The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.
Article 6.
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France (2), on the territory of or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.
Edited by skyrover on Tuesday 25th November 12:37
FourWheelDrift said:
kingofdbrits said:
Argentina announced last month that it intends to buy 24 Saab Gripen fighters, and they're bloomin good planes. Thankfully the UK has blocked the sale, however Brazil has just ordered loads too so not sure if Argentina will try to circumvent our attempts to block Argentina by buying through a.n.other?
The Brazilian military is there as a defense against Argentina. Has been going on for ages. South America had its own Dreadnought race in the early 20th century. The US built 2 battleships for Argentina, the UK built 2 battleships for Brazil and also 2 battleships for Chile, although we took one over temprarily for WWI and one permanently as a conversion to an aircraft carrier. They tool up purely to get ahead of their neighbour.They all mistrust each other down there. If oil rich Brazil are buying new expensive kit it'll force Argentina to do something they can't afford to do with dire consequences to their crumbling economy.
el stovey said:
Mr. Potato Head said:
I can't think of a country that that statement does not apply to.
The Argies are a great people and they have a beautiful country, rich with natural resources. Their main misfortune was being colonised by Spanish as opposed to British. If they had been, they would now be rich and stable like Australia. Any anti British rhetoric is simply the result of a hopeless corrupt government trying to draw attention from decades of disasterous economic policies.
Sort it out.
Edited by Mr. Potato Head on Tuesday 25th November 12:56
Mr. Potato Head said:
el stovey said:
Mr. Potato Head said:
I can't think of a country that that statement does not apply to.
The Argies are a great people and they have a beautiful country, rich with natural resources. Their main misfortune was being colonised by Spanish as opposed to British. If they had been, they would now be rich and stable like Australia. Any anti British rhetoric is simply the result of a hopeless corrupt government trying to draw attention from decades of disasterous economic policies.
Sort it out.
Edited by Mr. Potato Head on Tuesday 25th November 12:56
I'll see if I can dig it out.
jmorgan said:
Don't forget the Chinese and Russians have been sniffing around down there. Bet Putin would want to stir it up.
Putin could do a trade for oil expro rights or base rights, but other than antipathy with the UK they don't have much in common.I could see the Chinese going for it though, as there's oil to be drilled.
onyx39 said:
ukbabz said:
VeeDubBigBird said:
onyx39 said:
presumably we have the ability to keep half an eye on their ports, and if it looked like they were planning something, which I am sure would take a number of days, if not weeks, we could re-enforce the Typhoon force before they got anywhere near the coast of the Falklands?
A couple of kids with rocks could sink their fleet now.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Argent...
Extended readiness. Presumably that means " semi mothballed" ready in a few weeks?
In a proper conflict their fleet wouldn't last a day (ex RN Weapons Engineer)
Mr. Potato Head said:
el stovey said:
Mr. Potato Head said:
I can't think of a country that that statement does not apply to.
The Argies are a great people and they have a beautiful country, rich with natural resources. Their main misfortune was being colonised by Spanish as opposed to British. If they had been, they would now be rich and stable like Australia. Any anti British rhetoric is simply the result of a hopeless corrupt government trying to draw attention from decades of disasterous economic policies.
Sort it out.
Edited by Mr. Potato Head on Tuesday 25th November 12:56
The statements I made are merely repeating a common few that comes from many Argentine people I know. All lovely people but have a corrupt ineffectual government. There are many longstanding connections between Argentina and Britain. British were involved in the setting up of railways, and through that football. There are still Welsh influenced farming communities in the south.
Like in the UK, the more educated people have no interest whatsoever with going to war over the Falklands.
el stovey said:
Mr. Potato Head said:
el stovey said:
Mr. Potato Head said:
I can't think of a country that that statement does not apply to.
The Argies are a great people and they have a beautiful country, rich with natural resources. Their main misfortune was being colonised by Spanish as opposed to British. If they had been, they would now be rich and stable like Australia. Any anti British rhetoric is simply the result of a hopeless corrupt government trying to draw attention from decades of disasterous economic policies.
Sort it out.
Edited by Mr. Potato Head on Tuesday 25th November 12:56
The statements I made are merely repeating a common few that comes from many Argentine people I know. All lovely people but have a corrupt ineffectual government. There are many longstanding connections between Argentina and Britain. British were involved in the setting up of railways, and through that football. There are still Welsh influenced farming communities in the south.
Like in the UK, the more educated people have no interest whatsoever with going to war over the Falklands.
Argentina has long been a country of enormous unrealised potential.
Argentina suffers from the simple fact that it continues to be run by successive corrupt and incompetent leaders. One after the other, Argentina's ruling elite just step in and generally make a mess of things. Frankly, it matters not if they have the Kirchners or the army in charge, the place is still messed up.
I would imagine that apathy toward politics among the Argentine people must be massive. If ever a nation deserved a better government, it is Argentina. Even their neighbours dislike them.
Rovinghawk said:
kingofdbrits said:
Argentina announced last month that it intends to buy 24 Saab Gripen fighters,
Paid for how?IanMorewood said:
Rovinghawk said:
kingofdbrits said:
Argentina announced last month that it intends to buy 24 Saab Gripen fighters,
Paid for how?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff