More Argie Bargie
Discussion
PRTVR said:
Would not something like a patriot system be handy to have? The island is unsinkable so why have all your weapons on a ship, a radar on the top of a mountain, I think the Argentinians had one during the war, missiles could be located around the island in times of heightened tension., if nothing else it would keep the typhoon pilots on there toes.
We don't deploy a long range SAM it is a capability we have gapped since the end of the cold war.We will however deploy the Rapier missile replacement CAMM to the island as required. This system is considerably more capable than Rapier and would effectively make attacking mount pleasant with anything other than long range standoff weapons very costly.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAMM_%28missile_fam...
Re: Ark Royal if we'd had the Ark in service the islands would never have been invaded. The Bucaneers and Phantoms on board had a considerably greater range than any aircraft the Argentine air force possesses.
They could have attacked the airfields of the Argentine air force and destroyed them in detail. The bucaneer also had precision strike with TV martel and anti radar martel.
I don't pretend to know anything about our military capability, but surely if it all kicked off this time we could light up Buenos Aires / their command facilities / their supply facilities with Tomahawks?
Or are we only allowed to use those when we're playing with our big brother USA?
Or are we only allowed to use those when we're playing with our big brother USA?
Talksteer said:
Re: Ark Royal if we'd had the Ark in service the islands would never have been invaded. The Bucaneers and Phantoms on board had a considerably greater range than any aircraft the Argentine air force possesses.
They could have attacked the airfields of the Argentine air force and destroyed them in detail. The bucaneer also had precision strike with TV martel and anti radar martel.
I did see this question discussed on a forum once. The consensus from the military experts was that because Harriers could operate in conditions that conventional carrier aircraft couldn't, Ark Royal alone would have limitations. The ideal would have been Ark Royal plus Hermes or Invincible. They could have attacked the airfields of the Argentine air force and destroyed them in detail. The bucaneer also had precision strike with TV martel and anti radar martel.
Lardydah said:
I don't pretend to know anything about our military capability, but surely if it all kicked off this time we could light up Buenos Aires / their command facilities / their supply facilities with Tomahawks?
Or are we only allowed to use those when we're playing with our big brother USA?
Rules of Engagement, whilst surveillance missions probably happened and a SF strike mission was planned on the mainland most activities in operation corporate were restricted to the islands. I would expect similar ROE if round two happened, mostly to avoid international condemnation and to avoid neighbouring countries getting involved.Or are we only allowed to use those when we're playing with our big brother USA?
Lardydah said:
I don't pretend to know anything about our military capability, but surely if it all kicked off this time we could light up Buenos Aires / their command facilities / their supply facilities with Tomahawks?
Or are we only allowed to use those when we're playing with our big brother USA?
We could but, just like last time, it is a massive step from defending or retaking the Island to bombing Argentina proper.Or are we only allowed to use those when we're playing with our big brother USA?
Massive political step that would bring civilian casualties, arose other South American sympathies and ultimately could be very counter productive.
Lardydah said:
I don't pretend to know anything about our military capability, but surely if it all kicked off this time we could light up Buenos Aires / their command facilities / their supply facilities with Tomahawks?
Or are we only allowed to use those when we're playing with our big brother USA?
I doubt there'd be a need to be quite so heavy handed and I doubt any semblance of international support we could garner to defend the islands would last long if we did that pre-emptively. Or are we only allowed to use those when we're playing with our big brother USA?
Realistically I think the Argentinians know not to push it. Kirschener is grand standing to deflect attention as our politicians do (only significantly more so).
The Argentinians I met when there were nice people. Hopefully they'll be able to get rid of the crone through democratic means and get a government the country deserves that will focus on sorting itself out. But I suspect that may take a while (especially while she's knocking off anyone who opposes her!).
Murph7355 said:
Realistically I think the Argentinians know not to push it. Kirschener is grand standing to deflect attention as our politicians do (only significantly more so).
Not so sure the ordinary person there can pull it out the hat before she self implodes, I hope so. I think she is backing herself into a corner and at some point the powers backing her (not necessarily the populace), will ask for the proof of the pudding before the ordinary people get to have a say. Putin is basically stoking the fire and giving her what she thinks is a bigger stick.All you have to do is look back at the political history of the Argies. Its flip flopped between military and civil, both ultra right wing loonies full of their own self importance which they think makes them important on the worlds stage. The chest beating came to a rise in 1982 and is rising again but this time its civil, so nothing will happen BUT wait 'till the military get fed up with no action and they take over, (again), and see what happens. Maggie got duff advice from the FCO, they wont make that same mistake again....well hopefully they wont.
Bluebarge said:
Relax people - here are the promised reinforcements - 2 cargo helicopters and a primary school 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32031342
It also suggests personnel there number 1200, so that's probably a couple of hundred combat troops and the rest RAF engineers, ATC etc
Is there a general election coming up?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32031342
It also suggests personnel there number 1200, so that's probably a couple of hundred combat troops and the rest RAF engineers, ATC etc
There always used to be one Chinook on the Islands, untill they where all needed for Afganistan. Now we have 60 of them, and the Search and Rescue on the Island is being turned over to a private company, then the RAF can afford to send two back down there.
Not sure how it is now, but there was always one company of Infanty based on the Island. Taken from one of the two battalions based on Cypress on rotation. The rest are engineers etc, but all under go training to defend the base. They only have to last 24 hours untill the first wave of Para's would arrive.
DMN said:
Is there a general election coming up?
There always used to be one Chinook on the Islands, untill they where all needed for Afganistan. Now we have 60 of them, and the Search and Rescue on the Island is being turned over to a private company, then the RAF can afford to send two back down there.
Not sure how it is now, but there was always one company of Infanty based on the Island. Taken from one of the two battalions based on Cypress on rotation. The rest are engineers etc, but all under go training to defend the base. They only have to last 24 hours untill the first wave of Para's would arrive.
not sure but are 3 commando brigade not there just now on deployment? There always used to be one Chinook on the Islands, untill they where all needed for Afganistan. Now we have 60 of them, and the Search and Rescue on the Island is being turned over to a private company, then the RAF can afford to send two back down there.
Not sure how it is now, but there was always one company of Infanty based on the Island. Taken from one of the two battalions based on Cypress on rotation. The rest are engineers etc, but all under go training to defend the base. They only have to last 24 hours untill the first wave of Para's would arrive.
Sway said:
T45's can't be in two places at once, but where are we currently deployed where we can't spare another one if we need two on station?
Have a read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_Royal_Navy_d...
Your assumption that there's always a single T45 standing guard ready to splash any incoming Sykhawks/Daggers/SU24s is wildy optimistic, let alone the capacity to free up a second one.
A few years back I did some research into what sort of training the RN did with their shiny new Type 42s etc. back in the 1970s to prepare them for air attack. Lots of predictable and 'safe' training with aircraft coming in at set intervals, altitudes of 500ft+, clear radar backdrops etc. Even that showed up the inadequacy of gun defences on just about every type of ship in the fleet. Post-Falklands and the bloody mess the Argies made out of several of our ships, I wonder how much better the training has been against Type 45s. I certainly don't believe for one minute that a single 45 would survive for long against determined opposition. But then hopefully it would have been raining Tomahawks on every Argie airfield before we got to that point.
Seight_Returns said:
Sway said:
T45's can't be in two places at once, but where are we currently deployed where we can't spare another one if we need two on station?
Have a read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_Royal_Navy_d...
Your assumption that there's always a single T45 standing guard ready to splash any incoming Sykhawks/Daggers/SU24s is wildy optimistic, let alone the capacity to free up a second one.
And just how big is the APT(S) patrol area ? And what are the other commitments for a ship on that deployment apart from providing air defence to the FI ? And how often is the APT(S) deployment fulfilled by a T23 not a T45 ?
Which of the other T45 taskings would you compromise to send another one South ?
Remember the embarrasment last year when there was no Fleet Ready Escort available to shadow the 4 Russian warships that transited the English Channel and an OPV was all that was available to accompany them ?
Which of the other T45 taskings would you compromise to send another one South ?
Remember the embarrasment last year when there was no Fleet Ready Escort available to shadow the 4 Russian warships that transited the English Channel and an OPV was all that was available to accompany them ?
And just how big is the APT(S) patrol area ? - APT(S) at the sharp end is pretty focused on the FI.
And what are the other commitments for a ship on that deployment apart from providing air defence to the FI ? - Not much other than parking off Sierra Leone to willy wave and a couple of runs ashore pre handover.
And how often is the APT(S) deployment fulfilled by a T23 not a T45 ? - Often, although HQ would no doubt juggle things around a little if things warmed up too much.
Which of the other T45 taskings would you compromise to send another one South ? - As above, one of more of the two T45's in the Gulf or the one loafing in Pompey.
Remember the embarrasment last year when there was no Fleet Ready Escort available to shadow the 4 Russian warships that transited the English Channel and an OPV was all that was available to accompany them ? - Yep, and? There's a world of difference between how the RN deals with a credible threat to sovereign territory and Russians going about their business.
And what are the other commitments for a ship on that deployment apart from providing air defence to the FI ? - Not much other than parking off Sierra Leone to willy wave and a couple of runs ashore pre handover.
And how often is the APT(S) deployment fulfilled by a T23 not a T45 ? - Often, although HQ would no doubt juggle things around a little if things warmed up too much.
Which of the other T45 taskings would you compromise to send another one South ? - As above, one of more of the two T45's in the Gulf or the one loafing in Pompey.
Remember the embarrasment last year when there was no Fleet Ready Escort available to shadow the 4 Russian warships that transited the English Channel and an OPV was all that was available to accompany them ? - Yep, and? There's a world of difference between how the RN deals with a credible threat to sovereign territory and Russians going about their business.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff