More Argie Bargie

[jmorgan]

Not sure they will try to get us to spend more as an intent to get us to give up, that will go no where. I think they will up the ante. She wants to stay in power, sooner or later her bluff will be called.

[Martin4x4]

IanMorewood said:

So I'm to blame for a mad Russian selling an equally mad South American some obsolete highly complex strike jets in exchange for some magic beans?

Argentina is heading for another dirty war, these are more likely be used to quell rising internal strife.

[onyx39]

Martin4x4 said:

IanMorewood said:

So I'm to blame for a mad Russian selling an equally mad South American some obsolete highly complex strike jets in exchange for some magic beans?

Argentina is heading for another dirty war, these are more likely be used to quell rising internal strife.

So surely the answer then, is get Blair back in power, declare "regime change" is needed in Argentina, we invade, which will be a piece of p1ss because they have no military, and the there will be no more arguments about the Falklands / Malvina's because Argentina will be ours too?

[Oily Nails]

Given over half their naval assets don't have useable munitions you have to wonder what their air force has that;
A: fits
B: is serviceable and safe to fit

Undoubtedly the Russians will sell some suitable items to drop\launch, but in large enough volumes to engage the Falklands??

[onyx39]

So. Lets assume Johnny Russian sends over a bunch of planes, and Argentina launches them.
Are we to assume that, if Russia is supplying aircraft, he will be supplying flight crews too?
If he does, and they are launched at the Islands, Typhoon(s) are launched, I would imagine that if we got to this scenario, there would be considerably more Typhoon's on station.
Typhoon intercepts, and shoots down Russian fighters, and aircrew are killed.
Has the UK just shot down a Russian aircraft, or an Argentinian one?

[Rogue86]

MPA is a QRA Station; those Typhoons will likely have landed again before the Argentinians even realised they were being engaged in the first place.

[jmorgan]

Won't be the first time another nations pilots have flown under someone else' flag. But I think the purpose here is Putin is egging her on and to hell with the consequences.

[carreauchompeur]

It's such a shame all this posturing is going in, Argentina is an ace country with ace people. I'm planning to decamp there next autumn and really hope this doesn't stuff it up.

[toppstuff]

carreauchompeur said:

It's such a shame all this posturing is going in, Argentina is an ace country with ace people. I'm planning to decamp there next autumn and really hope this doesn't stuff it up.

All true. But they have an awful, awful government and have done for years and years. Something is seriously messed up with the Argentinian political class. That country deserves a much better government.

They have frightened off external investment. The country is seen as too risky and flaky - the politics of the place are so ludicrous that companies simply can't plan properly or make any risk assessment, so they just don't bother investing because they don't know if they will lose all their money or not. The place is a basket case economically and politically.

[carreauchompeur]

True, just hoping that the 'blue' exchange rate stays at roughly what it is now otherwise it's game over for my travel plans.

[alfaman]

Octoposse said:

Yet another entirely predictable downside to picking a fight with Moscow and telegraphing our desire for regime change there.

In any case I would imagine that the motivation for Argentina acquiring more potent attack aircraft is not to actually use them, but rather to increase the cost of defending the Falklands to levels that will be unsustainable for a cash strapped future British government.

You fail to understand the concept and design of MPA.

It was designed and built so the FI could be re-garrisoned in a matter of hours - massively reducing the need for permanent troops.

If the argies acquire some cast-iron flintstonesque Russian jets - it could add to the amusement of British troops - would t affect the cost of operating the base...

[skyrover]

I would be less worried about some crusty old Su-24's and more worried if Argentina gets it's hands on the joint Chinese/Pakistani JF-17

http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/does-the-jf-17-fina...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder

[FourWheelDrift]

skyrover said:

I would be less worried about some crusty old Su-24's and more worried if Argentina gets it's hands on the joint Chinese/Pakistani JF-17

http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/does-the-jf-17-fina...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder

Are those the ones that are falling apart before they enter service or the ones that have the chocolate engines, I can never remember which cheap US knock-off the Chinese are flying these days.

[skyrover]

FourWheelDrift said:

skyrover said:

I would be less worried about some crusty old Su-24's and more worried if Argentina gets it's hands on the joint Chinese/Pakistani JF-17

http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/does-the-jf-17-fina...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder

Are those the ones that are falling apart before they enter service or the ones that have the chocolate engines, I can never remember which cheap US knock-off the Chinese are flying these days.

care to elaborate?

The Chinese do not fly them, it was developed for the Pakistani air-force and the export market

It uses Russian RD-33 engines which also power the Mig-29

It offers strong BVR capability, something many developing air-forces lack.

[toppstuff]

skyrover said:

I would be less worried about some crusty old Su-24's and more worried if Argentina gets it's hands on the joint Chinese/Pakistani JF-17

http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/does-the-jf-17-fina...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder

I would not worry about that at all. They are ancient designs, cheap to buy and run, designed for countries who want to protect themselves from their neighbours. It will be popular in Africa, for example.

Besides, Argentina is so spectacularly broken it is doubtful if even they can afford them. They would have to pay in kind probably with some agriculture output.

[hidetheelephants]

Octoposse said:

p to a point - but that presupposes that you have a type 45 on station - which would require three(?). (And a fleet of one doesn't give you a long list of tactical options).

Ditto four Typhoons on the ground doesn't give you four Typhoons in the air.

Which is exactly the point - we'll have to spend more money - and Argentina would hope to engineer this to a level whichg is unsustainable. Economic 'fleet in being'.

How is buying more aircraft that are more complex to maintain going to achieve this? They can't afford to keep the relatively simple aircraft they already have in an airworthy state, these superannuated cold warriors will last all of 6 months before going U/S for want of parts. The Argentine government is beyond broke, they couldn't get out of Buenos Aires if it cost 2 pesos to go around the world.

[PRTVR]

hidetheelephants said:

Octoposse said:

p to a point - but that presupposes that you have a type 45 on station - which would require three(?). (And a fleet of one doesn't give you a long list of tactical options).

Ditto four Typhoons on the ground doesn't give you four Typhoons in the air.

Which is exactly the point - we'll have to spend more money - and Argentina would hope to engineer this to a level whichg is unsustainable. Economic 'fleet in being'.

How is buying more aircraft that are more complex to maintain going to achieve this? They can't afford to keep the relatively simple aircraft they already have in an airworthy state, these superannuated cold warriors will last all of 6 months before going U/S for want of parts. The Argentine government is beyond broke, they couldn't get out of Buenos Aires if it cost 2 pesos to go around the world.

I don't know whether I should say anything on this topic as it has a habit of coming true
China is the big concern, they appear to be doing lots of deals for resources, building roads and infrastructure in Africa, Argentina may sell rights to explore for oil of its coast.
The one saving grace for us is the distance involved from Argentina, whatever they buy is immediately at a disadvantage.

[jmorgan]

Not forgetting that giving away arms freebies in S America might have a few other issues, not just egging on Argentina president to do silly things.

[onyx39]

jmorgan said:

Not forgetting that giving away arms freebies in S America might have a few other issues, not just egging on Argentina president to do silly things.

Clearly now the Yanks are Cuba's best friends again, Russia needs to up the ante!

[jmorgan]

onyx39 said:

jmorgan said:

Not forgetting that giving away arms freebies in S America might have a few other issues, not just egging on Argentina president to do silly things.

Clearly now the Yanks are Cuba's best friends again, Russia needs to up the ante!

Yeah, this has still to be played out. Obama has been seen to be a bit lukewarm over the Falklands in recent years, I think they have been trying to cosy up to S America more in recent years. I think they have a can of worms and not sure how to open it but know they have to. Putin lobbing a few planes around, that will set up a few issues I think whether they are state of the art of made of wood and glue.