Iran threatening USA carrier group
Discussion
jmorgan said:
There were over 70,000 dead on Okinawa and a tad over 4,000 captured (not sure of the exact numbers, from a book I read recently and not digging it out now). Sort of says something as to giving up. I tend to avoid wiki as a source, as mentioned further up, I think many of these "debates" are bordering on revisionism, they did not fight across the Pacific.
It says something, but not everything. 'Revisionist' is looked on as a dirty word (seems to be anyway). The 'traditionalist' history laid out at the time is not the whole story, the 'revisionist' version is not the whole story. There are lots of permutations here and things should be looked and and regularly evaluated. I believe so anyway. But regardless I accept your points.Hope I haven't derailed anything much
Jimbeaux said:
Hez & Ha will melt away into the milder side of society, after all, peace and equality is all they ever sought.....Allah be praised 
Given time & the right circumstances, yes. Allah/Moses/Jesus are all getting in the way. Rebels with a cause, we support so many in so many places.
Mermaid said:
Jimbeaux said:
Hez & Ha will melt away into the milder side of society, after all, peace and equality is all they ever sought.....Allah be praised
Given time & the right circumstances, yes. Allah/Moses/Jesus are all getting in the way. Rebels with a cause, we support so many in so many places.
Jimbeaux said:
That type only changes when they die.....and the virgins come around.
Must have run out of virgins right now These people are no different to any group that feels aggrieved (including the Americans), and each of these groups have their extremists -some go on to become leaders in their countries. No?
Admittedly the two H's you mention don't like the US, so i can understand your stance.
Mermaid said:
Jimbeaux said:
That type only changes when they die.....and the virgins come around.
Must have run out of virgins right now These people are no different to any group that feels aggrieved (including the Americans), and each of these groups have their extremists -some go on to become leaders in their countries. No?
Admittedly the two H's you mention don't like the US, so i can understand your stance.
ETA: Though there appears to be a rapidly growing population within your country that does appeal to them. Edited by Jimbeaux on Thursday 23 February 16:44
MX7 said:
You know about the elections?
the president of iran is not in charge of foreign policy or the armed forces, so whether or not the elections were dodgy is a moot point. if the people wanted real change they would have protested against the ayatollah, the guardian council or the top clerics. even if bugs bunny was the president, we would still be in the same situation. but im sure you genuinely care about democracy in iran and the struggles of the people there and thats why you brought it up 
jayb289 said:
MX7 said:
You know about the elections?
the president of iran is not in charge of foreign policy or the armed forces, so whether or not the elections were dodgy is a moot point. if the people wanted real change they would have protested against the ayatollah, the guardian council or the top clerics. even if bugs bunny was the president, we would still be in the same situation. but im sure you genuinely care about democracy in iran and the struggles of the people there and thats why you brought it up Jimbeaux said:
I believe the Iranian people do want real change. Most of them have a more "western" attitude than many would expect. Their recent beat down for trying to protest is evidence of the situation.
how many protests have we had in the uk lately or even the riots? couldnt there be an argument that people in the uk want change? do you think if both of us were reporters we could present the news to a country like iran or north korea as proof the people are being oppressed and need change? this is a serious question mate or do you not see the point im trying to make. An Iranian analyst wrote an article in the Times last week.
His theory was that Khomeni was all for a short war with the US as it would give him the opportunity to take direct power over Iran, after many many years in the background.
It's always easy to forget the internal politics at play in these scenarios.
His theory was that Khomeni was all for a short war with the US as it would give him the opportunity to take direct power over Iran, after many many years in the background.
It's always easy to forget the internal politics at play in these scenarios.
jayb289 said:
Jimbeaux said:
I believe the Iranian people do want real change. Most of them have a more "western" attitude than many would expect. Their recent beat down for trying to protest is evidence of the situation.
how many protests have we had in the uk lately or even the riots? couldnt there be an argument that people in the uk want change? do you think if both of us were reporters we could present the news to a country like iran or north korea as proof the people are being oppressed and need change? this is a serious question mate or do you not see the point im trying to make. Jimbeaux said:
What I am saying is that, reported from various and unrelated sources, the youth of Iran (which is the majority)are unhappy and embarrassed by their government. The revolution of 30 years ago does not seem to share their views on things. Do you honestly feel they like "things" the way they are?
Some may be unhappy, and a large percentage have been westernised for decades now, but they would rather support their government (warts & all) than any foreign power and their efforts to interfere in their country again. Sabre rattling by the US & Israel will not divide them. And I do think the Iranian leaders make stupid threats - it's their way & mainly for the local audience that better understand that type of rhetoric.
The Iranians think the US is Satan, and the Americans thinks Iran is a rogue state - the truth, as always, is in the middle somewhere.
jayb289 said:
MX7 said:
You know about the elections?
the president of iran is not in charge of foreign policy or the armed forces, so whether or not the elections were dodgy is a moot point. if the people wanted real change they would have protested against the ayatollah, the guardian council or the top clerics. even if bugs bunny was the president, we would still be in the same situation. but im sure you genuinely care about democracy in iran and the struggles of the people there and thats why you brought it up Jimbeaux said:
I see your point. What I am saying is that, reported from various and unrelated sources, the youth of Iran (which is the majority)are unhappy and embarrassed by their government. The revolution of 30 years ago does not seem to share their views on things. Do you honestly feel they like "things" the way they are?
well its impossible for any news source to know what the "youth" want. all i know is there was all sorts of hell breaking loose when the young people in the uk felt betrayed and some demanded change, smashed building etc. didn`t they get dismissed as anarchist, lazy, freeloaders etc. why would it be any different in iran?im just saying people criticize the media for twisting stories to sell papers and propaganda but when its a country that doesnt do as we say or buy our weapons then all of a sudden we take their word for it. but even the people who reported it first are now having doubts, so im glad im not the only one. have a read of this when you get the time http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/1...
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