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rev-erend

Original Poster:

18,251 posts

170 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Well,

Looks like the SNP want a Referendum on Independence from the rest of the UK.

BBC news story
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16463961


No surprise - they want to have financial Independence (i.e they keep any oil revenue) but not political Independence .. (i.e. The Scottish MP's still attend and vote in the UK parliament). At least that is my take on what they want.

It's funny when you talk with a few scots - they dont seem to want to be Independent.

What is your opinion ?


BoRED S2upid

10,771 posts

126 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Last Scot I spoke to about this wanted Independence and to go into the Euro! he was drunk but aren't they all.

Gargamel

7,185 posts

147 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
As long as England puts a large export tax on Mars bars, we can soon get our defecit under control.

Thing is though, why aren't the English side of the border being given a vote at the same time ? Even if it was non binding ?

Johnnytheboy

10,455 posts

72 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Much cake & eat it seems to be going on.

Still, have a referendum, see what the population think.

But keep Scottish MPs in Westminster after independence? ps off!

johnfm

10,949 posts

136 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Jeez. We've never discussed this on here before. I am looking forward to seeing the views on this...
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jains15

955 posts

59 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Gargamel said:
Thing is though, why aren't the English side of the border being given a vote at the same time ?
THIS! It's our union, not just a union to England & Wales belonging to Scotland.

I know why we are not asked though... Westminster doesn't want to split, certainly Labour doesn't as Scotland is a heartland for them. Ergo they won't ask a question they know won't go their way. Which is also part of the reason in my eyes that we havn't been asked about Europe or the Euro itself.

Why they are even bothering in the current climate I don't know though. It'll be interesting as to whether the debate will be "Shall we split with England?" or "Shall we split with England and join the Euro?" the way I see it they would have to join the Euro but it's whether the debate centres on that or anti England.

Overall though, if they decide they want to split, let them. It's supposed to be a democracy after all.

rev-erend

Original Poster:

18,251 posts

170 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
As some alluded too .. if you live on the English side of the border it can seem unfair, especially if you want to send your kids to Uni.

Totally agree on Labours position.

They would loose a lot of seats and votes.

Too loose those Scots MPs would be a bonus though.

todd69

240 posts

100 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Scottish independence!

Would I trust the current mob of politicians up here to look after the Scots best interests, no!

I’d be moving straight down south if this went ahead.

jshell

5,982 posts

91 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Most Scots don't really want independance. Salmond knows this, but even giving the vote is a huge winner for him.

He's one of, if not the, shrewdest politicians on the go today. I say that as someone who really doesn't like him. He'll run rings round CMD, even on a bad day...

MX7

7,897 posts

60 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
jshell said:
Most Scots don't really want independance.
Exactly. If there's a referendum, most will say No, so none of it matters anyway.

rev-erend

Original Poster:

18,251 posts

170 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
I think you guys are spot on..

Most when they think historically have a lot of issues with England
and are happy to bh and moan about the past but do not really
want to go it alone when they do sober up smile

eharding

7,146 posts

170 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
MX7 said:
jshell said:
Most Scots don't really want independance.
Exactly. If there's a referendum, most will say No, so none of it matters anyway.
...except that having a referendum, and the independence movement being roundly trounced - not that I'm saying it would be - would be a body blow to the SNP. Ask how the Lib Dems feel about having electoral reform at Westminster kicked off the agenda for the foreseeable future by a referendum.

jshell

5,982 posts

91 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
eharding said:
MX7 said:
jshell said:
Most Scots don't really want independance.
Exactly. If there's a referendum, most will say No, so none of it matters anyway.
...except that having a referendum, and the independence movement being roundly trounced - not that I'm saying it would be - would be a body blow to the SNP. Ask how the Lib Dems feel about having electoral reform at Westminster kicked off the agenda for the foreseeable future by a referendum.
See, I don't think it would be a body blow. Salmond knows it'd be voted down but then he can say: 'Well, we did promise a vote. You voted and we'll listen to that decision.' That way he gets a lot of kudos for being a man of his word, and at least he'll be remembered for actually giving us a vote. Unlike we got with Bliar on Europe and unlike CMD will ever give us on Europe either.

Just imho..

Northern Munkee

4,194 posts

86 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Yes. But what is the referendum question?

It sounds like CMD is trying to call Salmond's bluff, from noises coming out of the SNP leadership, they don't want full independence, just more power (meddling without the buck stopping on them) and money. Deep down I think most Scots know we share so much in common that we are better off together. Although I hope this coincides with an English referendum on staying in the Union simple yes or no, on full independence (of course any talk of English independence just screams racism....) and let's roll in an EU referendum on to the same ballot paper, save some money, and let all the people have their say once and for all.

Guam

21,959 posts

154 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
They cant seem to make their minds up though

Discussion on Radio 4 this morning was hilarious. Cameron wants to give them the option in about 18 months.

They are screaming foul it will be too soon? Well you wanted it you said now you dont want it in that timescale and you dont want a straight in or out question.

What Salmond really wants is complete Fiscal control, while still being in the pound how innovative, shame it hadnt been done before oh wait it has its called the Euro lol


No way Westminster will accept a fudge with a situation that could replicate the Euro within the UK.


Straight up and down yes or no vote is all thats required, so get the SNP to put up or shut up!

Lets get it done, wave them bye bye if thats what they want, or put this pathetic debate to bed once and for all! <all IMHO of course>

Murph7355

10,510 posts

142 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
eharding said:
.... Ask how the Lib Dems feel about having electoral reform at Westminster kicked off the agenda for the foreseeable future by a referendum.
I guess they'd say that their preferred option wasn't even on the table...?

That referendum was destined to go the way it did once it was worded like it was. Which is also why I suspect the turnout was how it was...

Gun

13,269 posts

104 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
jains15 said:
Gargamel said:
Thing is though, why aren't the English side of the border being given a vote at the same time ?
THIS! It's our union, not just a union to England & Wales belonging to Scotland.
I've thought this as well, if Scotland went independant it would affect everyone in the country so everyone should have their say on the matter.

MX7

7,897 posts

60 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Guam said:
They cant seem to make their minds up though

Discussion on Radio 4 this morning was hilarious. Cameron wants to give them the option in about 18 months.

They are screaming foul it will be too soon?
I know when they could do it. 3rd. May.

jshell

5,982 posts

91 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Guam said:
They cant seem to make their minds up though

Discussion on Radio 4 this morning was hilarious. Cameron wants to give them the option in about 18 months.

They are screaming foul it will be too soon? Well you wanted it you said now you dont want it in that timescale and you dont want a straight in or out question.

What Salmond really wants is complete Fiscal control, while still being in the pound how innovative, shame it hadnt been done before oh wait it has its called the Euro lol


No way Westminster will accept a fudge with a situation that could replicate the Euro within the UK.


Straight up and down yes or no vote is all thats required, so get the SNP to put up or shut up!

Lets get it done, wave them bye bye if thats what they want, or put this pathetic debate to bed once and for all! <all IMHO of course>
Cameron has fecked up here I think. His meddling is more likely to be seen as English interference in Scottish affairs, something that will backfore on him. He really does not want to break up the Union.

Big Rod

5,167 posts

102 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
todd69 said:
Scottish independence!

Would I trust the current mob of politicians up here to look after the Scots best interests, no!

I’d be moving straight down south if this went ahead.
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