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Author Discussion

confused_buyer

3,180 posts

78 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
I think it is fair to ask Scotland to either whatsit or get off the pot.

It makes it difficult for the rest of the UK to make long term strategic decisions when they don't know whether Scotland will be a foreign country or not in 5 years time.

For example, any long term investment in defence establishments can't really be made if in 5 years time it will all have to come south of the border and other UK wide agencies such as the tax centre in Cumbernauld etc.

I also suspect that, if Scotland is to go, Cameron would like them to have decided to go by the time of the next UK election.

MX7

7,902 posts

71 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Zaxxon said:
Not as many peoplein Scotland and England want the Union broken up as Salmand thinks IMO. But only a vote would prove that. And as said by other posters it should not be a purely Scottish vote. It should be the UK.
I'm not convinced. It's about a country seeking independence. If that's what the majority of Scots want, let them have it.

I know it's slightly different, but should the UK have voted in the Australian Republic referendum, or the Jamaican one, whenever it is?

MX7

7,902 posts

71 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Guam said:
They arent part of the Union though, they are members of the commonwealth, so its a moot point.
As I said, there are differences.

So what happens if Scotland holds a referendum, has 100% turnout, 3,800,000, all voting 'Yes'. England has a much lower turnout by percent, but 3,800,001 vote 'No'. I'm sure that Syria would be delighted to have some of the attention taken away from them!

thinfourth2

32,414 posts

101 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Johnnytheboy said:
Any referendum should have a "shut up about it for twenty years afterwards" clause attached to it, whichever way it goes.
Only if the english stop blaming scotland for

1 Labour winning general elections despite the majority is greater then the number of MPs from scotland
2 Gordon brown
3 The banking crash
4 Every single unemployed person in the UK
5 Anything we can blame the welsh for
6 The english based media getting bored and rolling out a story about scotland

cocopop

1,242 posts

102 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
What about Scot's living in England and vice versa. If there was a 'yes' vote, what would be the implications?
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Caulkhead

4,938 posts

54 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Guam said:
cocopop said:
What about Scot's living in England and vice versa. If there was a 'yes' vote, what would be the implications?
They become Foreign nationals as long as Scotland signed the EU treaties then they <both ways> would be treat like any other EU nationals. If they didnt then its Visa time smile

I assume that both countries would issue automatic right of residency and work permits to those already in Situ both sides of the border.
If a newly independent Scotland decides to join the Schengen border agreement, we'll then have to build a huge wall along the border complete with passport checkpoints and customs.

Derek Smith

22,390 posts

145 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Will ex-pat Scots get the vote? From my experience, the Sctos that have moved around a bit, at least in England/Wales, tend not to want to leave the Union. For the last vote a Scottish mate reckoned that those who voted for it were voting for a theme park.

The problem for Salmod is that if the vote goes against him then there is little point in his being. His main plank is the vote. He does pose a lot with the 'stand up to Westminster' rhetoric but I can't see that being enough to keep the party in being.

The problem for everyone else is that there is no one else. Labour, with an expose about corruption and graft coming out every week, are hardly the party to inspire. Lib/Dems are losing support. Is there any other party?

The hype of Scottish independence has held Scotland back for years. It needs resolving and asap is good. There will be those who are determined to go that way regardless of the benefits/costs. In 18 months Europe will still be in the mire and England/Wales might well be on the up. It's a risk Salmond will have to take.

There's been this promise of joining the Scandinavians. I would suggest England has more in common with them.

I'm very pro Union. When Scotland and England worked together it benefited both countries, Scotland most. It flowered. But England benefitted immensely as well. Together we dominated a massive proportion of the world. Squabbling amongst ourselves helps neither of us and i fear that is precisely what we will do if Scotland goes its own way.

It could well be the precursor to England leaving the EU. We would want to renegotiate our terms, having lost the oil, and Germany/France would not want that. I would assume Scotland would become a net contributor to the coffers and I don't see that helping them in any way.

I can't see independence being of any benefit to either country. Scotland is very divided and I can't see this being resolved by independence. The country would lurch to the left as well, which won't be of any help. If they do get the vote then the SNP loses its major power base. England/Wales would move right a bit and this might well drag Scottish businesses a few miles south and over the border.

The Scots have had a massive influence on Parliament, more so than in proportion to their electorate.

MX7

7,902 posts

71 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Guam said:
Moot point, England wont be voting I guarantee it, we wont want to be seen to stacking the deck imho.
That was an answer to Zaxxon.

Caulkhead

4,938 posts

54 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
thinfourth2 said:
1 Labour winning general elections despite the majority is greater then the number of MPs from scotland
You're only not to blame if the UK labour majority is more than twice the number of Scottish labour MP's as unlike England, none of you vote Tory to even up the number of labour MP's you spawn.

thinfourth2 said:
2 Gordon brown
Sorry, you're going to have to put your hands up to old sad-sack.

thinfourth2 said:
3 The banking crash
Fair enough, as long as you admit that if it had happened after Scottish independence, you'd now be living in a cardboard box waiting for an Oxfam food drop.

thinfourth2 said:
4 Every single unemployed person in the UK
No-one blames you for all of them, it's just there's always an unemployed scotsman with a can of super on every train to remind us of your input.

thinfourth2 said:
5 Anything we can blame the welsh for
How can you blame the Welsh for anything? they're like a mini Scotland but with an actual langauge of their own. The Scots positively aspire to be Welsh!

thinfourth2 said:
6 The english based media getting bored and rolling out a story about scotland
Read any Scottish tabloids lately? biggrin

rev-erend

Original Poster:

18,608 posts

181 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
thinfourth2 said:
Only if the english stop blaming scotland for

1 Labour winning general elections despite the majority is greater then the number of MPs from scotland
2 Gordon brown
That is true..

Especially point 2.

rev-erend

Original Poster:

18,608 posts

181 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Derek Smith said:
Will ex-pat Scots get the vote? From my experience, the Sctos that have moved around a bit, at least in England/Wales, tend not to want to leave the Union. For the last vote a Scottish mate reckoned that those who voted for it were voting for a theme park.

The problem for Salmod is that if the vote goes against him then there is little point in his being. His main plank is the vote. He does pose a lot with the 'stand up to Westminster' rhetoric but I can't see that being enough to keep the party in being.

The problem for everyone else is that there is no one else. Labour, with an expose about corruption and graft coming out every week, are hardly the party to inspire. Lib/Dems are losing support. Is there any other party?

The hype of Scottish independence has held Scotland back for years. It needs resolving and asap is good. There will be those who are determined to go that way regardless of the benefits/costs. In 18 months Europe will still be in the mire and England/Wales might well be on the up. It's a risk Salmond will have to take.

There's been this promise of joining the Scandinavians. I would suggest England has more in common with them.

I'm very pro Union. When Scotland and England worked together it benefited both countries, Scotland most. It flowered. But England benefitted immensely as well. Together we dominated a massive proportion of the world. Squabbling amongst ourselves helps neither of us and i fear that is precisely what we will do if Scotland goes its own way.

It could well be the precursor to England leaving the EU. We would want to renegotiate our terms, having lost the oil, and Germany/France would not want that. I would assume Scotland would become a net contributor to the coffers and I don't see that helping them in any way.

I can't see independence being of any benefit to either country. Scotland is very divided and I can't see this being resolved by independence. The country would lurch to the left as well, which won't be of any help. If they do get the vote then the SNP loses its major power base. England/Wales would move right a bit and this might well drag Scottish businesses a few miles south and over the border.

The Scots have had a massive influence on Parliament, more so than in proportion to their electorate.
Nicely put and just so true.

thinfourth2

32,414 posts

101 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Caulkhead said:
thinfourth2 said:
5 Anything we can blame the welsh for
How can you blame the Welsh for anything?
4 letters that strike fear into anyone that owns a car in the UK

DVLA

jshell

6,520 posts

102 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Guam said:
Caulkhead said:
If a newly independent Scotland decides to join the Schengen border agreement, we'll then have to build a huge wall along the border complete with passport checkpoints and customs.
Nah we only need to repair the existing one smile

We can make everything North of Hadrians Wall a free fire zone smile
Would England have an army if all of the Scots soldiers went home?

stefd

285 posts

125 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Who gets to vote? i.e. Who is classified as Scottish? Do you have to be born there or currently living there?

My brother and sister were born in Glasgow but they're certainly not Scottish (moved to London when babies), I was educated there but born elsewhere and am probably more Scottish than them. Or my stepdad, definitely Scottish but hasn't lived there for 25 years, will he get a vote?

What about English people living in Scotland, will they get turfed out?

TankRizzo

3,068 posts

90 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Paging ViperPict, your thread is here again!

thinfourth2

32,414 posts

101 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
stefd said:
What about English people living in Scotland, will they get turfed out?
Why should they?

Of course engaging the pistonheads stereotype

Why would anyone move to scotland as the only jobs are working for the civil service

rev-erend

Original Poster:

18,608 posts

181 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
For scenery - there is nothing like it.

gtdc

4,259 posts

180 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
The Scottish people who are for it say that Scotland will be financially better off. Others say that Scotland costs England money. Which is actually true?

doogz

24,378 posts

84 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
Most people i know don't want independance, the financial consequences would be horrendous for a start.

But it concerns me that for every well educated person that properly understands the facts, there's at least one mouth breathing, jeremy kyle watching fkwit that "hates the english" because they beat us at football or whatever, and would make such an important decision based on something so fking stupid.

Hopefully if they decide to hold a referendum, the actual facts, especially the key financial aspects of it all, would come out in the press, but you know newspapers are always going to put their own slant on it.

thinfourth2

32,414 posts

101 months

[news] 
Monday 9th January 2012 quote quote all
gtdc said:
The Scottish people who are for it say that Scotland will be financially better off. Others say that Scotland costs England money. Which is actually true?
the simple truth is no one actually knows

Anyone who knows for certain is basically lying

I order parts from England on a weekly basis and i work in a company in scotland in the oil industry.

I won't stop using english companies if we get independance unless some tosser of a politician makes it imposible
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