Login | Register
SearchMy Stuff
My ProfileMy PreferencesMy Mates RSS Feed
1 2 ... 98 99
101 102 ... 499 500
TOPIC CLOSED
Author Discussion

Huntsman

4,714 posts

146 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
I understand, primarily from this thread, that in the UK when Labour were in power, for every £4 spent, £1 was borrowed.

Can you tell me, in Spain, now, what is that ratio? How much are they spending and how much are they borrowing?

With 25% of the working population in Spain unemployed how big is their welfare bill and how are they finding the money to pay it?

powerstroke

3,215 posts

56 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
Gary11 said:
Globs said:
Popular opinion?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/local-ele...

The majority of voters are still too stupid to notice what's going on.
The things they care about are Corrie, Towie and Eastenders.
Do you know globs your right my wife looked at me in disbelief last night as I tried (badly) to explain via this thread what may happen,when the topic comes up in a group you get 2-3 people taking part as the rest skulk of or yawn and start talking footie towie or eastenders ....thing is where does it get us?
Nowhere unless they are personaly hit in the pocketrolleyes then they will want to know why did'nt anyone warn thembanghead

1point7bar

1,091 posts

44 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
Globs said:
Popular opinion?
The majority of voters are still too stupid to notice what's going on.
The things they care about are Corrie, Towie and Eastenders.
I am not sold on the assignment of stupidity as the overriding cause. Human action is a very difficult subject to be certain about. The impericist approach that uses historical statistical induction is inherently out of date and possibly fatally conceited. A system (the economy) with so many acting variables (us), has recently shown mathematical modelling to be unreliable, and this method more of a case to answer for the current jeopardy than stupidity.
Popular thoughts are clearly a product of mass media education, or manipulation if you like, and delusions easily propogated by this process.

LongQ

11,035 posts

129 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
1point7bar said:
Globs said:
Popular opinion?
The majority of voters are still too stupid to notice what's going on.
The things they care about are Corrie, Towie and Eastenders.
I am not sold on the assignment of stupidity as the overriding cause. Human action is a very difficult subject to be certain about. The impericist approach that uses historical statistical induction is inherently out of date and possibly fatally conceited. A system (the economy) with so many acting variables (us), has recently shown mathematical modelling to be unreliable, and this method more of a case to answer for the current jeopardy than stupidity.
Popular thoughts are clearly a product of mass media education, or manipulation if you like, and delusions easily propogated by this process.
Alternatively you might conclude that many voters - up to 90% on some matters based on the recent local elections - are well aware about what is going on, have spotted the lack of any means by which they can effectively influence anything through the democratic process in a foreseeable future and have disengaged from whatever the process was meant to be.

I await some new regulation that makes it an offence not to vote (if eligible) during an election process. I believe Australia already has such a law along with a few other places around the world. Once all the political parties have broadly the same manifesto and policies and bubble-wrapped leaderships no matter who you vote for the policy can be shown to be acceptable to the voters. All will be well with the world. A couple of gulags will fix the problem of any dissident voices.

The influence or otherwise of TV in all of this might be an interesting subject to discuss. But as I never watch any (although occasionally cannot help seeing and hearing a few seconds of random broadcasts) I would not be qualified to offer a sound opinion.

Gary11

4,030 posts

97 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
I see a real tide change here a problem not seen or thought possible before the crash,remove intrenched family party loyalty for a moment,look down the 5yr austerity gun barrel,or vote for the left cynicaly (particularly in the UK) vote grabbing by promising no more cuts and an end to austerity actually turning the electorate against the people trying to "fix" the problems, caused hypocriticaly by the people now offering a (the)way out.I just watched an interview where a family in Greece,quite well to do teacher wife accountant husband,uni son all have not worked for 3YEARS so are voting for the easier non austerity left wing parties as they cannot continue their lives and have voted this way not out of political dissuation but DESPARATION thats the new problem facing this mess IMO.
If it is a left wing tide sweeping accross Europe then the trouble will start,FWIW the tories have gone in too hard they need to wind their necks in a bit before it al goes pear shaped!!
Advertisement

Gary11

4,030 posts

97 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
Huntsman said:
I understand, primarily from this thread, that in the UK when Labour were in power, for every £4 spent, £1 was borrowed.

Can you tell me, in Spain, now, what is that ratio? How much are they spending and how much are they borrowing?

With 25% of the working population in Spain unemployed how big is their welfare bill and how are they finding the money to pay it?
50% of under 25s are unemployed too a scary figure.

davepoth

24,689 posts

95 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
Gary11 said:
I see a real tide change here a problem not seen or thought possible before the crash,remove intrenched family party loyalty for a moment,look down the 5yr austerity gun barrel,or vote for the left cynicaly (particularly in the UK) vote grabbing by promising no more cuts and an end to austerity actually turning the electorate against the people trying to "fix" the problems, caused hypocriticaly by the people now offering a (the)way out.I just watched an interview where a family in Greece,quite well to do teacher wife accountant husband,uni son all have not worked for 3YEARS so are voting for the easier non austerity left wing parties as they cannot continue their lives and have voted this way not out of political dissuation but DESPARATION thats the new problem facing this mess IMO.
If it is a left wing tide sweeping accross Europe then the trouble will start,FWIW the tories have gone in too hard they need to wind their necks in a bit before it al goes pear shaped!!
Austerity of the level that's going on in Greece isn't a left wing-right wing thing. All mainstream parties in Greece are advocating austerity because the alternative (being dumped out of the Euro) means they get chucked off the gravy train of massive funds coming from Brussels.

For Greece the fiscally responsible thing to do was default on the debts early.

There's no left wing tide in Europe. It's a tide of extremism of both sides of the political spectrum.

Gary11

4,030 posts

97 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
davepoth said:
Austerity of the level that's going on in Greece isn't a left wing-right wing thing. All mainstream parties in Greece are advocating austerity because the alternative (being dumped out of the Euro) means they get chucked off the gravy train of massive funds coming from Brussels.

For Greece the fiscally responsible thing to do was default on the debts early.

There's no left wing tide in Europe. It's a tide of extremism of both sides of the political spectrum.
Well we will have to see hypotheticaly its easy to say not but lets see how the elections go France and Greece will go to the left,I think the UK would today to be honest the electorate wont vote for pain,I agree about default for Greece wouldve saved billions.

Traveller

2,619 posts

113 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
Gary11 said:
50% of under 25s are unemployed too a scary figure.
That kind of unemployment figure, coupled to diminishing state handouts, sounds like a recipe for serious social unrest.

Wombat3

7,683 posts

102 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
Looks like Sarko has admitted defeat & so in comes "Tax & Spend" Hollande that "hates the rich".

They are so screwed.

Still, look on the bright side - it will be a three year demonstration from the socialists of how to bankrupt a country before we have another election

1point7bar

1,091 posts

44 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
If you listen really carefully you can just hear a Leopard II warming up.

odyssey2200

18,650 posts

105 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
Wombat3 said:
Looks like Sarko has admitted defeat & so in comes "Tax & Spend" Hollande that "hates the rich".

They are so screwed.

Still, look on the bright side - it will be a three year demonstration from the socialists of how to bankrupt a country before we have another election
OTOH being French they are always up for a bit of a revolution.


LongQ

11,035 posts

129 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
Wombat3 said:
Looks like Sarko has admitted defeat & so in comes "Tax & Spend" Hollande that "hates the rich".

They are so screwed.

Still, look on the bright side - it will be a three year demonstration from the socialists of how to bankrupt a country before we have another election
So property prices in London at the top end of the market continue to rise with incoming invstments and our lot look out of their political bubble and only see prosperity abounding and cannot understand why people are not happy with their policies.

Wonderful.

davepoth

24,689 posts

95 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
1point7bar said:
If you listen really carefully you can just hear a Leopard II warming up.
Listen even closer, you'll hear Frau Merkel carefully cueing the Reichtag's emergency 78rpm record of "Ride of the Valkyries" on an antique gramophone.

Globs

13,131 posts

127 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
Wombat3 said:
Looks like Sarko has admitted defeat & so in comes "Tax & Spend" Hollande that "hates the rich".

They are so screwed.

Still, look on the bright side - it will be a three year demonstration from the socialists of how to bankrupt a country before we have another election
They were screwed anyway - whoever won. It was Sarko taking them down le plug-hole with the euro or Hollande by spending too much. The Gallic inability to vote for someone to actually represent them is as bad as Britains.

I mean look at us - we have Pro-EU Tories, Pro-EU Yellows or Pro-EU communists, at least there is a (small) chance Hollande will stand up to the EU though.

ETA:
Torygraph said:
Mr Hollande has also called for the role of the ECB to be expanded, allowing it to lend directly to the sinner states – or at least to the bail-out fund, the European Stability Mechanism.
Ahh... the ECB have got their man in. Europe is truly fked.

Edited by Globs on Sunday 6th May 20:33

Steffan

10,096 posts

124 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
davepoth said:
1point7bar said:
If you listen really carefully you can just hear a Leopard II warming up.
Listen even closer, you'll hear Frau Merkel carefully cueing the Reichtag's emergency 78rpm record of "Ride of the Valkyries" on an antique gramophone.
I have always admired Wagner although his personal life was somewhat unusual.

Well then? What do we believe the immediate consequences will be?

I never like to pronounce results before the announcements are through but it does look like Sarkozy knows that his goose is in the oven. If this turns out to be the case the EU will have a real problem. IMO this will mean that the support and subsidy for the HBAT's is dead. Forthwith.

And, as others have said with the unemployment level on the below 25's already over 50% in some of HBAT's this really does start to look like a hopeless case for the continuance of the EU bail out of the HBAT's. How can it be continued? The human cost in itself must surely beg thus question?

In all conscience, with falling Benefits levels in the HBAT's and these kinds of unemployment levels WITH the subsidy from the EU, I cannot see how any reasonable responsible politician could actually vote to continue this nonsense. There is going to be major civil unrest in the HBAT's unless the HBAT's change direction. In the basis that the EU will not contribute more I cannot see how the HBAT's remain within the EU.

But others may disagree and I will be interested to hear whether the continuance approach of the EU is still regarded as sustainable. It does seem most unlikely to me. But clearly there are other vies. Is the consensus changing?

Steffan

10,096 posts

124 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
Two comments from the Beeb

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17975370

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17975660

The Greek coalilition is suffering serious losses

And Sarkozy is out and Hollande is is in.

What a difference a day makes. The future of the HBAT's in the Euro looks pretty bleak. The future of the Euro looks none too rosy. Clearly the Greek influx into the UK will be joined by the French influx into the UK. Central London property prices will rise again.

This dishonest travesty had gone on long enough. Time to begin dealing with the reality of the problems and not covering them up with Billions of Euros being thrown away without the EU taxpayers having any real opportunity to save their money.

What now for France, the HBAT's and Europe. That must be the question.




odyssey2200

18,650 posts

105 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
HBATs??

confused

Globs

13,131 posts

127 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
Steffan said:
This dishonest travesty had gone on long enough. Time to begin dealing with the reality of the problems and not covering them up with Billions of Euros being thrown away without the EU taxpayers having any real opportunity to save their money
This isn't going to happen.
Hollande has told us the plan, and the plan is for the ECB to become the de-facto central bank with a licence to print money.

So in another decade ALL of europe will belong to the ECB/ESM, not just half of it. It's really odd to think that europe fought for independence, and now it's just rolled over to foreign totalitarian rule.

Huntsman

4,714 posts

146 months

[news] 
Sunday 6th May 2012 quote quote all
odyssey2200 said:
HBATs??

confused
I *think* its hanging by a thread, ie those countires teetering on the edge of financial troubles.
1 2 ... 98 99
101 102 ... 499 500
TOPIC CLOSED