Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 2]

[Mermaid]

LongQ said:

Driller said:

Mermaid said:

Steffan said:

..
The experiment has failed totally economically, financially and politically.

Not all experiments work,

A bit pedantic but an experiment is not designed to work or not, it's there to test a hypothesis.

I think you've rather got to say "didn't give the expected result" in this case.

Surely it has always been a 'project' rather than a single experiment and will continue to be one along the same lines as historic empires based on the same areas of the planet's land mass?

A well intentioned dream.

[LongQ]

Mermaid said:

LongQ said:

Driller said:

Mermaid said:

Steffan said:

..
The experiment has failed totally economically, financially and politically.

Not all experiments work,

A bit pedantic but an experiment is not designed to work or not, it's there to test a hypothesis.

I think you've rather got to say "didn't give the expected result" in this case.

Surely it has always been a 'project' rather than a single experiment and will continue to be one along the same lines as historic empires based on the same areas of the planet's land mass?

A well intentioned dream.

Some would say it hass sort of worked in that France and Germany have not been at war with each other for quite some time ...

[cal216610]

LongQ said:

Some would say it hass sort of worked in that France and Germany have not been at war with each other for quite some time ...

Although everyone may just want to have another race to berlin again.

[Driller]

The word "experiment" wasn't used by me BTW, it's used in this thread in a dismissive fashion to discredit the European system.

Although the way figures are, this appears to be happening all by it's self.

[Fittster]

Well the EU are creating work for some firms:

"De La Rue (DLAR.L) has drawn up contingency plans to print drachma banknotes should Greece exit the euro and approach the British money printer, an industry source told Reuters on Friday. The news comes as EU trade commissioner Karel De Gucht said on Friday the European Commission and the European Central Bank are working on an emergency scenario in case Greece has to leave the euro zone - the first time an EU official has confirmed the existence of contingency plans."

[Mermaid]

With the G8 meeting this week-end, Monday morning should prove eventful.

Frau Merkel will be under pressure - and she kept a tidy house

[eldar]

Fittster said:

Well the EU are creating work for some firms:

"De La Rue (DLAR.L) has drawn up contingency plans to print drachma banknotes should Greece exit the euro and approach the British money printer, an industry source told Reuters on Friday. The news comes as EU trade commissioner Karel De Gucht said on Friday the European Commission and the European Central Bank are working on an emergency scenario in case Greece has to leave the euro zone - the first time an EU official has confirmed the existence of contingency plans."

3 to 4 months lead time, apparently. Ready by mid to late August...

[AndrewW-G]

Fittster said:

Well the EU are creating work for some firms:

"De La Rue (DLAR.L) has drawn up contingency plans to print drachma banknotes should Greece exit the euro and approach the British money printer, an industry source told Reuters on Friday. The news comes as EU trade commissioner Karel De Gucht said on Friday the European Commission and the European Central Bank are working on an emergency scenario in case Greece has to leave the euro zone - the first time an EU official has confirmed the existence of contingency plans."

Given Greece's financial history, I hope De La Rue insist on payment up front

[Mermaid]

AndrewW-G said:

Given Greece's financial history, I hope De La Rue insist on payment up front

The Germans will be happy to pay that cost.

[Gary11]

WhoseGeneration said:

Well aware of him, prophet in the wilderness though.
Such has been the indoctrination of the masses that they are not able to see beyond the false prophets that are the "authorised" politicians presented to them.

I agree, worthy of note our media seems almost now 6mths behind reality and also there is scant coverage of the run on the Greek and Spanish banks only now is Cameron just starting to make noises again .....to late.

Edited by Gary11 on Saturday 19th May 10:47

[davepoth]

Mermaid said:

AndrewW-G said:

Given Greece's financial history, I hope De La Rue insist on payment up front

The Germans will be happy to pay that cost.

Probably the EU instead of Germany directly, but we'll all pay. It should be a little quicker than 3-4 months anyway. Unlike the oft-quoted example of Iraq, it's likely that the various denominations will be farmed out to De La Rue, Gisecke & Devrient and possibly Landquart in Switzerland, with printing done by DLR, G&D, the Greek State Print Works and a couple of other places.

The origination work for making the watermarks and the printing plate takes around 6 weeks normally, but it's a safe bet that's already been done - it's not a massive expense to get it done compared to the cost of manufacture, and the companies involved are very discreet.

The paper machines are sat waiting to start production (DLR certainly have enough spare production capacity to do that at their main site), and the possibility to make two and a half tonnes of paper an hour per machine (ish), at roughly a million banknotes per tonne. The printing presses can run a lot faster than the paper can be made, so isn't a constraint as far as delivery is concerned.

You'll want 500 million banknotes to start with at an average value of £20, so around 20-25 days' production, less if multiple manufacturers were used. The new currency could be in within a month. Obviously with hyperinflation they'll need a lot more, but that should get them going.

[WhoseGeneration]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18121414

An interesting twist.

[davepoth]

WhoseGeneration said:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18121414

An interesting twist.

So now they're all about democracy?

[WhoseGeneration]

davepoth said:

WhoseGeneration said:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18121414

An interesting twist.

So now they're all about democracy?

If the Greeks were to have a vote on continuing € membership, along with their GE, I can see a situation where they vote in anti austerity parties but vote for continuing € membership.
That'd be a real conundrum for the €zone.

[Stig]

WhoseGeneration said:

If the Greeks were to have a vote on continuing € membership, along with their GE, I can see a situation where they vote in anti austerity parties but vote for continuing € membership.
That'd be a real conundrum for the €zone.

As said before, they'll vote to stay in because the are used to having their cake and eating it. Why build a viable economy when you can continue to sponge off the ECB with bailout after bailout.

[motco]

davepoth said:

Mermaid said:

AndrewW-G said:

Given Greece's financial history, I hope De La Rue insist on payment up front

The Germans will be happy to pay that cost.

Probably the EU instead of Germany directly, but we'll all pay. It should be a little quicker than 3-4 months anyway. Unlike the oft-quoted example of Iraq, it's likely that the various denominations will be farmed out to De La Rue, Gisecke & Devrient and possibly Landquart in Switzerland, with printing done by DLR, G&D, the Greek State Print Works and a couple of other places.

The origination work for making the watermarks and the printing plate takes around 6 weeks normally, but it's a safe bet that's already been done - it's not a massive expense to get it done compared to the cost of manufacture, and the companies involved are very discreet.

The paper machines are sat waiting to start production (DLR certainly have enough spare production capacity to do that at their main site), and the possibility to make two and a half tonnes of paper an hour per machine (ish), at roughly a million banknotes per tonne. The printing presses can run a lot faster than the paper can be made, so isn't a constraint as far as delivery is concerned.

You'll want 500 million banknotes to start with at an average value of £20, so around 20-25 days' production, less if multiple manufacturers were used. The new currency could be in within a month. Obviously with hyperinflation they'll need a lot more, but that should get them going.

I visited the de la Rue site (Hampshire?) when it was the previous company, Portals, and they told me that with some African nations they have made the watermarks (carved from wax by artists) but by the time they were due to run the paper (they didn't print in those days, only made the paper) the President had been deposed so they had to start the artwork all over again.

[davepoth]

motco said:

I visited the de la Rue site (Hampshire?) when it was the previous company, Portals, and they told me that with some African nations they have made the watermarks (carved from wax by artists) but by the time they were due to run the paper (they didn't print in those days, only made the paper) the President had been deposed so they had to start the artwork all over again.

It's all done with computers these days, which speeds it up a lot. But in the archives there's a load of stuff like that. My favourite was the Confederate States of America stamps.

[davepoth]

WhoseGeneration said:

davepoth said:

WhoseGeneration said:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18121414

An interesting twist.

So now they're all about democracy?

If the Greeks were to have a vote on continuing € membership, along with their GE, I can see a situation where they vote in anti austerity parties but vote for continuing € membership.
That'd be a real conundrum for the €zone.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/may/18/eur...

It's all right, 'cos Greece has told them to fk off.

Edited by davepoth on Friday 18th May 20:20

[eharding]

davepoth said:

WhoseGeneration said:

davepoth said:

WhoseGeneration said:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18121414

An interesting twist.

So now they're all about democracy?

If the Greeks were to have a vote on continuing € membership, along with their GE, I can see a situation where they vote in anti austerity parties but vote for continuing € membership.
That'd be a real conundrum for the €zone.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/may/18/eur...

It's all right, 'cos Greece has told them to fk off.

Edited by davepoth on Friday 18th May 20:20

Germany claiming Merkel said nothing of the sort in the call, and it was all an error of translations.

The Greek President, a fluent German speaker, thought she said 'Volksentscheid'.

Merkel, who thought she had the mute button pressed down, actually said "Fks and Shytes", referring to the French in a side conversation with an adviser who was sitting in on the call.

This is how wars start.

I'm convinced that Nuclear Armageddon will eventually arrive as a direct result as a botched attempt to use the mute button in a teleconference.

[davepoth]

From the Guardian, in an interview with the Mayor of London on his jolly to Athens...

"The prospect of Greece returning to the drachma was, (Boris) Johnson agreed, as remote as the UK joining EMU. But for safety's sake he had some of the old currency in his pocket - and what would have been back in 2001, when Athens signed up to the euro, a reasonable amount.

"I was told to come back in a month," he joked, after trying to pay his dinner bill with it."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/may/18/eur...