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Mermaid
12,481 posts
40 months
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April 26, 8:02pm US markets pick up steam amid mixed data Thursday 18.30 BST. Stocks are striving to consolidate recent gains as some investors are buoyed by a belief that the Federal Reserve will eventually provide additional stimulus to the world's largest economy. Easy money, asset bubbles. 
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WhoseGeneration
4,090 posts
76 months
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turbobloke said: Another alternative criticism is that, for a supposedly leading scientific organisation, the report is almost entirely about politics. It says we need to redistribute wealth and accept a significant drop in our quality of life not just to feed the redistribution but for reasons that are quasi-religious in the Gaia sense. The redistribution mechanism that the Royal Sorcery favours uses climate myths; as to the drop in consumption and associated quality of life decline, it's happening anyway without scientists playing at politics. Thankyou for your reply, I doubt most will bother. For me the standout concern was population control and arguing that contraception should be available to all women. That will challenge many "belief systems".
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speedy_thrills
5,636 posts
112 months
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Mermaid said: April 26, 8:02pm US markets pick up steam amid mixed data Thursday 18.30 BST. Stocks are striving to consolidate recent gains as some investors are buoyed by a belief that the Federal Reserve will eventually provide additional stimulus to the world's largest economy. Easy money, asset bubbles. And inflation making those vehicles look more attractive. People always forget to adjust investments for inflation.
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davepoth
19,878 posts
68 months
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BBC are reporting an S&P downgrade for Spain. Like anybody pays attention to them any more.
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WhoseGeneration
4,090 posts
76 months
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Globs
11,740 posts
100 months
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turbobloke said: Another alternative criticism is that, for a supposedly leading scientific organisation, the report is almost entirely about politics. It says we need to redistribute wealth and accept a significant drop in our quality of life not just to feed the redistribution but for reasons that are quasi-religious in the Gaia sense. The redistribution mechanism that the Royal Sorcery favours uses climate myths; as to the drop in consumption and associated quality of life decline, it's happening anyway without scientists playing at politics. Yes, there is so much work to be done to interest young people in science - it's depressing to see the RS mired in pseudo science and politics.
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Steffan
6,182 posts
97 months
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Globs said: turbobloke said: Another alternative criticism is that, for a supposedly leading scientific organisation, the report is almost entirely about politics. It says we need to redistribute wealth and accept a significant drop in our quality of life not just to feed the redistribution but for reasons that are quasi-religious in the Gaia sense. The redistribution mechanism that the Royal Sorcery favours uses climate myths; as to the drop in consumption and associated quality of life decline, it's happening anyway without scientists playing at politics. Yes, there is so much work to be done to interest young people in science - it's depressing to see the RS mired in pseudo science and politics. Sadly a route many august bodies are set upon. Once again. the God of Mammon is calling. Only the very strong resist. Not including the Royal Society apparently. Pity.
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WhoseGeneration
4,090 posts
76 months
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Steffan said: Sadly a route many august bodies are set upon. Once again. the God of Mammon is calling. Only the very strong resist. Not including the Royal Society apparently. Pity. I read it as population control would be instrinsic to providing for all. With which I wouldn't disagree, especially given the population projections suggested for the UK. Then, our politicians believe in the ponzi scheme, don't they. Reduce the populations, in all countries, and resource distribution becomes more easy.
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bosscerbera
8,050 posts
112 months
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WhoseGeneration said: I read it as population control would be instrinsic to providing for all.
With which I wouldn't disagree, especially given the population projections suggested for the UK.
Then, our politicians believe in the ponzi scheme, don't they.
Reduce the populations, in all countries, and resource distribution becomes more easy. An unpalatable truth. Faiths appear bizarre to non-believers... none more so than the faith in our present systems. Since I've been alive, global population has doubled. Consumption rates have increased. An increase in consumption rate AND an increase in consumers, exponential consumption growth, had to have a tipping point. I'm convinced it's tipped. There are now 7 billon of us. Our 'fair share' of everything on this planet is one seven-billionth of it. When I was born it was two seven billionths of it. I'm due, now, half what I was 'due' when I was born. Somehow, my generation has more than my parents did. Look at what you've got and look at what you did to get it. The populations of countries who used to appear on John Craven's Newsround covered in flies are now players in the global market. No longer do we collect milk bottle tops to feed them grain whilst emptying their country's mineral reserves: They have iPhones now, just like us.
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WhoseGeneration
4,090 posts
76 months
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bosscerbera said: They have iPhones now, just like us. You do have a way of getting to the heart of things. Sadly, most in the West do not appreciate this point. I suspect most Western politicians do understand, it's just that they cannot reveal the truth to their electorates. Thus, the charade continues, along with QE.
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Steffan
6,182 posts
97 months
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WhoseGeneration said: bosscerbera said: They have iPhones now, just like us. You do have a way of getting to the heart of things. Sadly, most in the West do not appreciate this point. I suspect most Western politicians do understand, it's just that they cannot reveal the truth to their electorates. Thus, the charade continues, along with QE. I also appreciated bosscerbera's post on iphones. Singularly appropriate. This is such a big subject it is difficult to find a starting point. The reality of Third world expansion, overall population growth and the inevitable consequences for the Western world, is really very challenging and as I have repeatedly suggested in the past, modern politicians choose an easy ride to greatness. T Blair being the shining example. Our politicians will not face the problems of their own making. A largely disaffected unworking population and the poor Taxpayer, being expected to provide a quality of life, to the Benefit Society ,that the unemployed within UK has become, but which the taxpayer, actually cannot afford to enjoy himself, is the madness eating at the heart of our economy. Why would our politicians attempt to grapple with the rising problems from outside the UK, when our politicians will not grasp the very cause of our economic retraction, within the UK, which they are entirely responsible for administering? Well might we ask. We are heading for disaster, in bloody big steps, as a society in the UK. Seven League Boots to Catastrophe, could be a title for the book. We will all be in the film. There is no interest or concern within our politics to deal with anything in government, other than the Milk Round organised by David and George every morning. We do not need the catastrophe of the impending Third World competition and demands to sink our economic lifeboat. Our own population of malcontents and ner'do'wells in the Benefit Society, at our midst, will manage that quite nicely on their own. Since we are already on the way to hell in a teacup with manifestly unsupportable Benefits being ladled out daily, our economic Goose is cooked. The politicians cannot deal with our problems let alone worry about the Third world. Ignorance is bliss. Out leaders must be a very ignorant lot. They clearly live in bliss.
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hornet
5,445 posts
119 months
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bosscerbera said: Since I've been alive, global population has doubled. Consumption rates have increased. An increase in consumption rate AND an increase in consumers, exponential consumption growth, had to have a tipping point. I'm convinced it's tipped. It's a mind boggling thought really isn't it? I think the other one is that in the last 30 years the global economy has doubled in size. Took all of human history to get to a certain point, then we doubled it in the space of a few decades, with yet another doubling predicted by 2050, by which time there will be nine billion of us. Have read theories suggesting technology and civilizations tend to be "lumpy", in the sense there will sometimes be a spike followed by a dropping back and then a period of stagnation. Roman Empire is usually the example given. I'm coming to the conclusion that we're in such a spike now. Interesting, if slightly depressing concept.
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davepoth
19,878 posts
68 months
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hornet said: bosscerbera said: Since I've been alive, global population has doubled. Consumption rates have increased. An increase in consumption rate AND an increase in consumers, exponential consumption growth, had to have a tipping point. I'm convinced it's tipped. It's a mind boggling thought really isn't it? I think the other one is that in the last 30 years the global economy has doubled in size. Took all of human history to get to a certain point, then we doubled it in the space of a few decades, with yet another doubling predicted by 2050, by which time there will be nine billion of us. Have read theories suggesting technology and civilizations tend to be "lumpy", in the sense there will sometimes be a spike followed by a dropping back and then a period of stagnation. Roman Empire is usually the example given. I'm coming to the conclusion that we're in such a spike now. Interesting, if slightly depressing concept. Problem is, there hasn't really been enough civilisation to work out whether the concept holds true. What can be shown quite well is that civilisation has advanced when the communication infrastructure improved - people talking to people is what made the great leaps. Huge progress was made by the Romans and the Persians, incidentally the first civilisations to institute postal services of some kind, and then that fell back as Europe and then the middle east succumbed to barbarism. As Europe came out of the dark ages, communication improved - but once the telegraph was invented and information could go around the world in a day, everything went mental. Right now it's possible for someone sat on the south pole to Tweet. We've come a long way.
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turbobloke
55,474 posts
129 months
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bosscerbera said: There are now 7 billon of us. Our 'fair share' of everything on this planet is one seven-billionth of it. When I was born it was two seven billionths of it. I'm due, now, half what I was 'due' when I was born. That's what the numbers say but there are other numbers as you will know - for example with food, production per capita has increased continuously and significantly over the same timescale. If I carried the numbers around including the degree of your youthfulness  I'd know if it had doubled or not since you were born but the point is that there's more to consumption and resources than population alone. There's also a natural mechanism for dealing with having too many people and too little food, regardless of what politicians do or don't do. One of the mechanisms for dealing with people in developing countries not having an i-phone appears to be selling body parts 
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rovermorris999
1,791 posts
58 months
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The best way to control the population level of the planet is to ensure that people get richer and better educated. Fertility levels plunge when countries reach reasonable levels of development. Not what the hair-shirters want to hear but true nonetheless.
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turbobloke
55,474 posts
129 months
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DJRC
19,819 posts
105 months
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Globs said: turbobloke said: Another alternative criticism is that, for a supposedly leading scientific organisation, the report is almost entirely about politics. It says we need to redistribute wealth and accept a significant drop in our quality of life not just to feed the redistribution but for reasons that are quasi-religious in the Gaia sense. The redistribution mechanism that the Royal Sorcery favours uses climate myths; as to the drop in consumption and associated quality of life decline, it's happening anyway without scientists playing at politics. Yes, there is so much work to be done to interest young people in science - it's depressing to see the RS mired in pseudo science and politics. Not really. Its quite easy to interest them, talk to them and engage with them about science and engineering.
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turbobloke
55,474 posts
129 months
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DJRC said: Globs said: turbobloke said: Another alternative criticism is that, for a supposedly leading scientific organisation, the report is almost entirely about politics. It says we need to redistribute wealth and accept a significant drop in our quality of life not just to feed the redistribution but for reasons that are quasi-religious in the Gaia sense. The redistribution mechanism that the Royal Sorcery favours uses climate myths; as to the drop in consumption and associated quality of life decline, it's happening anyway without scientists playing at politics. Yes, there is so much work to be done to interest young people in science - it's depressing to see the RS mired in pseudo science and politics. Not really. Its quite easy to interest them, talk to them and engage with them about science and engineering. At a corporate level there is obviously a need to remain superficially and unpollutedly open and scientific but at grass roots level it's not as easy as you may think, when did you last try on a personal level? With former colleagues, associates, even a couple of people I could once call friends in the RS and employed by it, they have become uncommunicative in the extreme, not replying at all on topical 'science' matters - I refer of course to the junkscience of global warming which is the RS's preferred route to global redistribution of wealth. No names no pack drill but it's real enough.
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DJRC
19,819 posts
105 months
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turbobloke said: DJRC said: Globs said: turbobloke said: Another alternative criticism is that, for a supposedly leading scientific organisation, the report is almost entirely about politics. It says we need to redistribute wealth and accept a significant drop in our quality of life not just to feed the redistribution but for reasons that are quasi-religious in the Gaia sense. The redistribution mechanism that the Royal Sorcery favours uses climate myths; as to the drop in consumption and associated quality of life decline, it's happening anyway without scientists playing at politics. Yes, there is so much work to be done to interest young people in science - it's depressing to see the RS mired in pseudo science and politics. Not really. Its quite easy to interest them, talk to them and engage with them about science and engineering. At a corporate level there is obviously a need to remain superficially and unpollutedly open and scientific but at grass roots level it's not as easy as you may think, when did you last try on a personal level? With former colleagues, associates, even a couple of people I could once call friends in the RS and employed by it, they have become uncommunicative in the extreme, not replying at all on topical 'science' matters - I refer of course to the junkscience of global warming which is the RS's preferred route to global redistribution of wealth. No names no pack drill but it's real enough. On a very regular basis. Ive done the recruiting work for SBAC at graduate events. Ive been a regular part of Young Enterprise schemes as a Mentor and do Ambassador in Schools programme. Large parts of my family are in the teaching game and Im shown off on a regular basis to talk about stuff. The last part especially is revealing about the attitudes of school kids and the "yoof of today" as they love to discuss and ask questions about the programmes I have been involved with. The adults love to hype them upto to them as they are high profile and "cool" and the kids always really engage with that. The only person who is reticient is me because I hate talking about my work. Its very very easy to engage kids, yoofs and adults of all ages in science and engineering. You just have to understand the angle you want to come from. I would never ever discuss the RS or what they thought for one, its simple not relevent. To anybody. If you want to engage with people you have to keep things relevent.
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Steffan
6,182 posts
97 months
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As an aside to brighten up our day, the latest news from Spain is pretty desperate See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17866382. Unemployment in profusion and steadily declining It is difficult to identify which event will cause the complete mess of the HBAT's trying to come to terms with their inevitable slide into insolvency, which must happen in due course. But the constant body blows of staggering levels of unemployment and citizens literally unable to eat must be creating pressure on the EU puppet government in Spain. The same is true for the Italian and Greek governments with the Portuguese government joining in for good measure. I cannot understand why the HBAT's are not availing themselves of the cheaper and far more manageable prospect of debt free continuance, which must be better for countries tied into a totally unaffordable currency. Politicians no longer take difficult decisions they fudge everything in the hope that no one spots the culprits. Presumably the Spanish leaders are convinced that their life is easier within the kernel of Europe. But this nonsense cannot go on for long. It is simply silly now to pretend that any solution other than default is workable. But, as we know, Politicians only take easy decisions in modern politics, and therefore I fear, this will drag on. Not for long, though, which event will precipitate the furore, I cannot suggest.
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