Is the end nigh for the Euro? [vol. 2]

[Wombat3]

LongQ said:

I wonder if the French owned businesses that own so much of the UK infrastructure might see an opportunity to change country of registration and profit from the move? Now that would be ironic ...

Excellent plan, then we can re-nationalise them , wait five years, and then privatise them again!

[1point7bar]

DJRC said:

But the majority of ppl on this thread are too stupid/naive/ignorant/biased to predict/see/understand what will/is/might happen.

The whole world is ignorant

Would you care to explain that judgement a bit more?

Steffan said:

Does anyone on PH think that the ECB can actually be solvent, given their exposure to the HBAT's?

Policies are not openly discussed by all the cogs in the global money mechanism. This renders any predetermination of outcome a guess.
I think it is relevant to the argument that the above mentioned machine was made by men for their purposes. Provided it still works and the tasks for which it was begat remain then, most likely, so will the machine.

[Globs]

DJRC said:

Europe didnt fight for independence, Europe has never fought for independence. Europe has *always* fought for totalitarian rule. Its just been a different *who* each time.

Of course there are two sides to any conflict, many died fighting against totalitarian rule.

[LongQ]

Wombat3 said:

LongQ said:

I wonder if the French owned businesses that own so much of the UK infrastructure might see an opportunity to change country of registration and profit from the move? Now that would be ironic ...

Excellent plan, then we can re-nationalise them , wait five years, and then privatise them again!

Well, you or I might 'do a YPF' but it seems that the bright political sparks may not be attuned the concept. I bet the Goldman's could work out how to make it highly profitable for all. For a fee.

[Mermaid]

Eurohoons getting cheaper by the day.

Euyo now at 80.8p to the £, compared to 81.1 on Friday, also at late 2008 levels.

[davepoth]

Mermaid said:

Eurohoons getting cheaper by the day.

Euyo now at 80.8p to the £, compared to 81.1 on Friday, also at late 2008 levels.

And if that goes on much longer, Greece may have a chance of fixing itself if it can find markets outside of the EU. That's a big if though.

[Globs]

Steffan said:

The fiat money discussions earlier on here and elsewhere on PH reflect the requirement that the market actually believes in the economic strengths underlying the fiat money being printed. I am unconvinced that that will be the case with the support to the EU. Does anyone on PH think that the ECB can actually be solvent, given their exposure to the HBAT's?

Once the ECB have their licence they don't need to be solvent, they can print ANY amount.
The ECB is wearing down the countries - soon the populations will demand that the ECB be allowed to print willy nilly - and the governments will gladly do as the ECB tells them and demand it too.

It's a war, the ECB/EU/ESM vs the people, currently each battle is being won by the ECB. I would expect the ECB's plan to succeed, and like the states is owned by the FED, Europe will be owned by the ECB and thus debt slavery can be harmonised across the EU.

[LongQ]

Mermaid said:

Eurohoons getting cheaper by the day.

Euyo now at 80.8p to the £, compared to 81.1 on Friday, also at late 2008 levels.

??


I need to buy some in the next couple of days. Don't suppose there is any chance they will drop to about 1.50 to the pound by then?

[Globs]

LongQ said:

Mermaid said:

Eurohoons getting cheaper by the day.

Euyo now at 80.8p to the £, compared to 81.1 on Friday, also at late 2008 levels.

??


I need to buy some in the next couple of days. Don't suppose there is any chance they will drop to about 1.50 to the pound by then?

I need some too by the end of the week - I'm hoping Hollande causes the value to plunge...

[Steffan]

Globs said:

Steffan said:

The fiat money discussions earlier on here and elsewhere on PH reflect the requirement that the market actually believes in the economic strengths underlying the fiat money being printed. I am unconvinced that that will be the case with the support to the EU. Does anyone on PH think that the ECB can actually be solvent, given their exposure to the HBAT's?

Once the ECB have their licence they don't need to be solvent, they can print ANY amount.
The ECB is wearing down the countries - soon the populations will demand that the ECB be allowed to print willy nilly - and the governments will gladly do as the ECB tells them and demand it too.

It's a war, the ECB/EU/ESM vs the people, currently each battle is being won by the ECB. I would expect the ECB's plan to succeed, and like the states is owned by the FED, Europe will be owned by the ECB and thus debt slavery can be harmonised across the EU.

I think that means you believe that the ECB can continue to do this pretty well ad infinitum? I do wonder whether this is actually possible, but you clearly have a view and I am interested in the logic.

If I may ask a question: what do you think will happen if the HBAT's drop out of the Euro because they cannot stomach the situation any longer?

Can the ECB stand the loss, that will result from the defaults of 100% losses on the value of the HBAT's debt and the immediate loss of the ECB investments in the EU Banks that are also inevitable because the HBAT's owe those Banks Billions as well, all which will be valueless, through non payment?

Or can you perhaps, foresee a way that these losses could be hovered up by the ECB without reference to the markets and without causing weakening confidence in the strength of the ECB itself? That would alter the pitch.

The fiat currency strengths and weaknesses trouble me a good deal. If confidence can be maintained, then there would appear to be unlimited wealth here. If confidence is lost then the currency value will plummet. Perhaps I am missing something in the ability of Central Banks to sustain the confidence even if major debtor countries are defaulting?



It certainly looks like we are going ti find out shortly. The only hope the EU and the NBAT;s have is the ECB. Are they so powerful they can enslave the entire EU electorate or could the sovereign defaults result in the collapse

[Mermaid]

Globs said:

I need some too by the end of the week - I'm hoping Hollande causes the value to plunge...

Stock markets dropping too S & P futures down almost 20 points since last Friday.

[Brite spark]

Globs said:

I need some too by the end of the week - I'm hoping Hollande causes the value to plunge...

Hollande and France may be a sideshow if the Greeks vote against austerity, counting the votes at the moment...

[DJRC]

Mermaid said:

DJRC said:

But the majority of ppl on this thread are too stupid/naive/ignorant/biased to predict/see/understand what will/is/might happen.

The whole world is ignorant. The trick is not to be dumb enough to think you know best for mankind and to be smart enough to know whats best for you.

How do you see the Euro vis-a-vis Sterling in the short & medium term?

Same as I said previously when I told you what would happen. About 3 weeks ago if I remember correctly.

[DJRC]

Globs said:

DJRC said:

Europe didnt fight for independence, Europe has never fought for independence. Europe has *always* fought for totalitarian rule. Its just been a different *who* each time.

Of course there are two sides to any conflict, many died fighting against totalitarian rule.

No, many died fighting against Totalitarian rule by somebody else at some period in history. Those roles were reversed at another point in history. Europe has a long and proud tradition of different nations attempting to impose totalitaran rule over the others.

Europe never fights for independence, it fights to control the others. Of the mainland major players, the only nation that that can be said has not applied to is Poland.

[Globs]

DJRC said:

No, many died fighting against Totalitarian rule by somebody else at some period in history. Those roles were reversed at another point in history. Europe has a long and proud tradition of different nations attempting to impose totalitaran rule over the others.

Europe never fights for independence, it fights to control the others. Of the mainland major players, the only nation that that can be said has not applied to is Poland.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Globs]

Steffan said:

I think that means you believe that the ECB can continue to do this pretty well ad infinitum? I do wonder whether this is actually possible, but you clearly have a view and I am interested in the logic.

If I may ask a question: what do you think will happen if the HBAT's drop out of the Euro because they cannot stomach the situation any longer?

Can the ECB stand the loss, that will result from the defaults of 100% losses on the value of the HBAT's debt and the immediate loss of the ECB investments in the EU Banks that are also inevitable because the HBAT's owe those Banks Billions as well, all which will be valueless, through non payment?

The key for the ECB is to get a legal mandate to print any amount of money it fancies, like the FED and BoE.
That's what they are working for. Yes, if a country drops out then _currently_ it would be bad for the ECB, but if they all stay in until the squeezed populations demand the ECB can print money (sic), then there is no issue, the ECB then just prints as much money as they need.

You may also have noticed the ECB men now run Italy and Greece, it looks like they now have France in the bag so there is little chance of any of those leaving - the odd default would be the next stage anyway - not necessarily leaving the euro.

Currently then the squeeze is just softening up the populations for then to demand a solution from the ECB, to ease all the pain they are getting from the ECB. No government will be leaving the euro, the ECB has bought and paid for all the politicians and they all know which side their brown envelopes are buttered.

The best the victims (also known as 'taxpayers' can hope for is that a bust happens before the ECB grip is complete, and forces them out of business. It's a pretty slender hope, the ECB has spread like a malignant lung cancer into almost every political recess.

[Steffan]

Globs said:

Steffan said:

I think that means you believe that the ECB can continue to do this pretty well ad infinitum? I do wonder whether this is actually possible, but you clearly have a view and I am interested in the logic.

If I may ask a question: what do you think will happen if the HBAT's drop out of the Euro because they cannot stomach the situation any longer?

Can the ECB stand the loss, that will result from the defaults of 100% losses on the value of the HBAT's debt and the immediate loss of the ECB investments in the EU Banks that are also inevitable because the HBAT's owe those Banks Billions as well, all which will be valueless, through non payment?

The key for the ECB is to get a legal mandate to print any amount of money it fancies, like the FED and BoE.
That's what they are working for. Yes, if a country drops out then _currently_ it would be bad for the ECB, but if they all stay in until the squeezed populations demand the ECB can print money (sic), then there is no issue, the ECB then just prints as much money as they need.

You may also have noticed the ECB men now run Italy and Greece, it looks like they now have France in the bag so there is little chance of any of those leaving - the odd default would be the next stage anyway - not necessarily leaving the euro.

Currently then the squeeze is just softening up the populations for then to demand a solution from the ECB, to ease all the pain they are getting from the ECB. No government will be leaving the euro, the ECB has bought and paid for all the politicians and they all know which side their brown envelopes are buttered.

The best the victims (also known as 'taxpayers' can hope for is that a bust happens before the ECB grip is complete, and forces them out of business. It's a pretty slender hope, the ECB has spread like a malignant lung cancer into almost every political recess.

A very informative detailed response, Globs. Thank you.. May I be so bold as to ask you what you regard as your political persuasion. Assuming you have one? Your views are distinctive.

[1point7bar]

A further anathema is the continued existence of the national central banks in the
Eurozone.
A central bank not in control of the currency is the proverbial handbrake on a canoe. It is difficult to believe no-one forsaw such a fundamental structural issue, I mean these guys do this sort of thing for a living right?

[Steffan]

1point7bar said:

A further anathema is the continued existence of the national central banks in the
Eurozone.
A central bank not in control of the currency is the proverbial handbrake on a canoe. It is difficult to believe no-one forsaw such a fundamental structural issue, I mean these guys do this sort of thing for a living right?

I agree. But there are a number of structural deficiencies in the Euro finance system. How can the individual sovereign states operate central banks with the ECB being the central bank of the Euro.

Just one of the total conundrums in the Eurozone.

Classic case of having your cake and eating it. It will not work. There cannot be duplicity of central banks, but there are. Typical EU nonsense.

[LongQ]

1point7bar said:

A further anathema is the continued existence of the national central banks in the
Eurozone.
A central bank not in control of the currency is the proverbial handbrake on a canoe. It is difficult to believe no-one forsaw such a fundamental structural issue, I mean these guys do this sort of thing for a living right?

The last thing you want to do if your business is vermin control is to exterminate all the vermin. ndeed on might wish to introduce more types of vermin in order to be able to offer even more control processes.