Real world example of public sector pension changes...

[Mr GrimNasty]

Camoradi said:

sidicks said:

No, but I understand how this stuff works. It seems you don't understand it as well as you think!


Sidicks

Luckily for me, the pension and annuity providers I wrote the software for thought otherwise

I've done the same at a senior level including the business analysis, and on government systems/models, and international Airlines financials - I still wouldn't claim to be an expert or to have specialist understanding.

[sidicks]

Camoradi said:

Luckily for me, the pension and annuity providers I wrote the software for thought otherwise

I think you'll find that being able to program a charging structure into a computer system is quite different from being able to price and manage a pensions annuity business!!

But nice comeback!

Sidicks

[Randy Winkman]

VinceFox said:

Just thought i'd share this to give some sense of reality for anyone who keeps seeing this on the news. Have to admit i was a little baffled about how my pension contributions would change and even a little nervous.

Anyway, paperwork landed on my doorstep this morning and my contributions per month for an above average salary have gone up by...



...wait for it...



















£24. TWENTY FOUR fkING QUID A MONTH. I'd been stting myself wondering how bloody much i was going to lose and it turns out to be roughly six quid a week.


Scaremongering, striking fking aholes. I soiled my armour, i was so scared.

Are you sure that's all that's changing?

[groak]

Bearing in mind that the fund gets stolen when you die, the type of pension that involves buying an annuity which produces a taxable income has to be one of the WORST possible investments.

A taxable £14kpa from 43 years of contributions is AWFUL, by the way. You must be very angry about it.

[sidicks]

groak said:

Bearing in mind that the fund gets stolen when you die, the type of pension that involves buying an annuity which produces a taxable income has to be one of the WORST possible investments.

The fund does NOT get stolen when you die - there is no fund, you are simply buying an income for life.

groak said:

A taxable £14kpa from 43 years of contributions is AWFUL, by the way. You must be very angry about it.

Even by your bitter standards that's a ridiculous statement without understanding what contributions have been paid in!

Sidicks

[VinceFox]

Randy Winkman said:

VinceFox said:

Just thought i'd share this to give some sense of reality for anyone who keeps seeing this on the news. Have to admit i was a little baffled about how my pension contributions would change and even a little nervous.

Anyway, paperwork landed on my doorstep this morning and my contributions per month for an above average salary have gone up by...



...wait for it...



















£24. TWENTY FOUR fkING QUID A MONTH. I'd been stting myself wondering how bloody much i was going to lose and it turns out to be roughly six quid a week.


Scaremongering, striking fking aholes. I soiled my armour, i was so scared.

Are you sure that's all that's changing?

Meaning?

[DonkeyApple]

Digga said:

Totally understand. I find the blatant obfuscation of pension fund overheads scandalous. If the FSA had any bks or teeth it would have addressed this; I defy most people to understand what they are actually being charged and how.

One of my pet bhes with retail fund management as a whole.

I can tell you fascinating stories re weirdly high equity exchange clearing charges via unrequired order routing paths through to how performance related bonuses work.

Then on the commercial property side, how those assets are bought and sold and the fees while holding.

Gordon's nasty little tax raid is insignificant by comparison.

[Sticks.]

VinceFox said:

Meaning?

Normal CS pension age rises from 60 to 65 iirc.

[Randy Winkman]

VinceFox said:

Randy Winkman said:

VinceFox said:

Just thought i'd share this to give some sense of reality for anyone who keeps seeing this on the news. Have to admit i was a little baffled about how my pension contributions would change and even a little nervous.

Anyway, paperwork landed on my doorstep this morning and my contributions per month for an above average salary have gone up by...



...wait for it...



















£24. TWENTY FOUR fkING QUID A MONTH. I'd been stting myself wondering how bloody much i was going to lose and it turns out to be roughly six quid a week.


Scaremongering, striking fking aholes. I soiled my armour, i was so scared.

Are you sure that's all that's changing?

Meaning?

You said in your opening post that you were "baffled". Are you sure you are not still baffled? Many people in the public sector will be paying an increased pension contribution this year, then a further increase next year - and a final increase the year after. They will also be seeing the fundamental way in which their pension is calculated change from 2015. Then they will see their pension age increase and the way that it's set against inflation worsen. I'm not saying these things will happen to you (and I'm not even saying they shouldn't happen to anyone) - I just wonder if you are fully informed.

[groak]

sidicks said:

groak said:

Bearing in mind that the fund gets stolen when you die, the type of pension that involves buying an annuity which produces a taxable income has to be one of the WORST possible investments.

The fund does NOT get stolen when you die - there is no fund, you are simply buying an income for life.

groak said:

A taxable £14kpa from 43 years of contributions is AWFUL, by the way. You must be very angry about it.

Even by your bitter standards that's a ridiculous statement without understanding what contributions have been paid in!

Sidicks

I know it's a bit O/T, but tell the thread what the average pension pot purchasing an annuity is just now. And tell us also how much income it produces per annum.

It actually makes that £14kpa for 43 years of contributions seem like a king's ransom.

It's a CON, sonny, as well you know.

http://www.lovemoney.com/news/savings-investments-...

Edited by groak on Thursday 9th February 23:49

[VinceFox]

Randy Winkman said:

VinceFox said:

Randy Winkman said:

VinceFox said:

Just thought i'd share this to give some sense of reality for anyone who keeps seeing this on the news. Have to admit i was a little baffled about how my pension contributions would change and even a little nervous.

Anyway, paperwork landed on my doorstep this morning and my contributions per month for an above average salary have gone up by...



...wait for it...



















£24. TWENTY FOUR fkING QUID A MONTH. I'd been stting myself wondering how bloody much i was going to lose and it turns out to be roughly six quid a week.


Scaremongering, striking fking aholes. I soiled my armour, i was so scared.

Are you sure that's all that's changing?

Meaning?

You said in your opening post that you were "baffled". Are you sure you are not still baffled? Many people in the public sector will be paying an increased pension contribution this year, then a further increase next year - and a final increase the year after. They will also be seeing the fundamental way in which their pension is calculated change from 2015. Then they will see their pension age increase and the way that it's set against inflation worsen. I'm not saying these things will happen to you (and I'm not even saying they shouldn't happen to anyone) - I just wonder if you are fully informed.

The problem is randy, i can only make a decision based on the information to hand at the time. Given the info in front of me currently, i have two choices. One is to decide it isn't for me and opt out, the other is to stay in given what i understand so far. I've chosen the second until/unless i hear something concrete which makes me decide it isn't for me. You may also notice i haven't gone on strike. I haven't whinged about it. I haven't played the system, stolen, embezzled, defrauded anyone, pulled sickies, done my job at anything less than my best or asked for any thanks (that's what pay is for).

Signed, a public sector employee.

[fandango_c]

groak said:

I know it's a bit O/T, but tell the thread what the average pension pot purchasing an annuity is just now. And tell us also how much income it produces per annum.

It actually makes that £14kpa for 43 years of contributions seem like a king's ransom.

It's a CON, sonny, as well you know.

The amount that's paid out reflects the amount that's paid in.... not that hard for most people to realise, but it seems lost on you.

[groak]

fandango_c said:

The amount that's paid out reflects the amount that's paid in.... not that hard for most people to realise, but it seems lost on you.

Just cashed the compensation cheque for the con perpetrated on me (and millions of others) by ONE of my ex-'pension providing expert' conman companies.

The problem is that the amount that's paid out is so out of sync with what's paid in that it's more accurately termed 'conning' than 'investing'. (and that isn't even accounting for the pot providing the annuity being stolen-on-death)



won'tgetfooledagain icks

Edited by groak on Thursday 9th February 23:57

[Randy Winkman]

VinceFox said:

Randy Winkman said:

VinceFox said:

Randy Winkman said:

VinceFox said:

Just thought i'd share this to give some sense of reality for anyone who keeps seeing this on the news. Have to admit i was a little baffled about how my pension contributions would change and even a little nervous.

Anyway, paperwork landed on my doorstep this morning and my contributions per month for an above average salary have gone up by...



...wait for it...



















£24. TWENTY FOUR fkING QUID A MONTH. I'd been stting myself wondering how bloody much i was going to lose and it turns out to be roughly six quid a week.


Scaremongering, striking fking aholes. I soiled my armour, i was so scared.

Are you sure that's all that's changing?

Meaning?

You said in your opening post that you were "baffled". Are you sure you are not still baffled? Many people in the public sector will be paying an increased pension contribution this year, then a further increase next year - and a final increase the year after. They will also be seeing the fundamental way in which their pension is calculated change from 2015. Then they will see their pension age increase and the way that it's set against inflation worsen. I'm not saying these things will happen to you (and I'm not even saying they shouldn't happen to anyone) - I just wonder if you are fully informed.

The problem is randy, i can only make a decision based on the information to hand at the time. Given the info in front of me currently, i have two choices. One is to decide it isn't for me and opt out, the other is to stay in given what i understand so far. I've chosen the second until/unless i hear something concrete which makes me decide it isn't for me. You may also notice i haven't gone on strike. I haven't whinged about it. I haven't played the system, stolen, embezzled, defrauded anyone, pulled sickies, done my job at anything less than my best or asked for any thanks (that's what pay is for).

Signed, a public sector employee.

Good for you - I have no problem with your approach at all. But your opening post seems to suggest that all that's going to happen for a public sector worker on an above average wage is that they pay £24 a month extra. For the vast majority of public sector workers - that isn't the case.

[ribenavrs]

Randy Winkman said:

Good for you - I have no problem with your approach at all. But your opening post seems to suggest that all that's going to happen for a public sector worker on an above average wage is that they pay £24 a month extra. For the vast majority of public sector workers - that isn't the case.

seconded

[AndrewW-G]

I think I must be having a bit of a stupid morning . . . . if the example volunteered for this debate, is that to get a pension of in or around %50 of salary (for the sake of this example let’s say £30k pa), paying in 1.5% a year over 43 years then the contributions are in the region of £19,500 in total, for a £14,000 PA benefit. . . .Is this really the case?

Even if the 1.5% contribution was a typo and it’s 15%, that’s still only £193,500

[VinceFox]

Randy Winkman said:

Good for you - I have no problem with your approach at all. But your opening post seems to suggest that all that's going to happen for a public sector worker on an above average wage is that they pay £24 a month extra. For the vast majority of public sector workers - that isn't the case.

Sorry mate, just read my post back and it comes across a bit arsey.

[jonah35]

groak said:

Just cashed the compensation cheque for the con perpetrated on me (and millions of others) by ONE of my ex-'pension providing expert' conman companies.

The problem is that the amount that's paid out is so out of sync with what's paid in that it's more accurately termed 'conning' than 'investing'. (and that isn't even accounting for the pot providing the annuity being stolen-on-death)



won'tgetfooledagain icks

Edited by groak on Thursday 9th February 23:57

why would you get an annuity?

[sidicks]

jonah35 said:

why would you get an annuity?

He gets very confused and likes to throw his toys out of the pram on a regular basis.

Best ignore him!


Sidicks

[Randy Winkman]

VinceFox said:

Randy Winkman said:

Good for you - I have no problem with your approach at all. But your opening post seems to suggest that all that's going to happen for a public sector worker on an above average wage is that they pay £24 a month extra. For the vast majority of public sector workers - that isn't the case.

Sorry mate, just read my post back and it comes across a bit arsey.

Not a problem at all.