Scargill, still causing trouble
Discussion
AAGR said:
Think you will find that Norman Tebbit never actually said 'get on a bike and look for work'. What he actually said was something like : 'My father got on his bike and went out to look for work ....'.
Rather different emphasis, I think you must agree ?
Its true, I remember him saying those words, now I take those words to mean what I was saying earlier, 'get on your bike'. I cannot see any other meaning to those words he used, nor did the popular media at the time. So what do you think he was meaning with his choice of words?Rather different emphasis, I think you must agree ?
crankedup said:
AAGR said:
Think you will find that Norman Tebbit never actually said 'get on a bike and look for work'. What he actually said was something like : 'My father got on his bike and went out to look for work ....'.
Rather different emphasis, I think you must agree ?
Its true, I remember him saying those words, now I take those words to mean what I was saying earlier, 'get on your bike'. I cannot see any other meaning to those words he used, nor did the popular media at the time. So what do you think he was meaning with his choice of words?Rather different emphasis, I think you must agree ?
crankedup said:
AAGR said:
Think you will find that Norman Tebbit never actually said 'get on a bike and look for work'. What he actually said was something like : 'My father got on his bike and went out to look for work ....'.
Rather different emphasis, I think you must agree ?
Its true, I remember him saying those words, now I take those words to mean what I was saying earlier, 'get on your bike'. I cannot see any other meaning to those words he used, nor did the popular media at the time. So what do you think he was meaning with his choice of words?Rather different emphasis, I think you must agree ?
"I grew up in the '30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he kept looking 'til he found it."
This exchange was the origin of the attribution to Tebbit of the slogan "On yer bike!". Tebbit is often misquoted as saying directly to the unemployed "get on your bike and look for work".
Now, "On yer bike!" is polite parlance for f
k OFF. Are you seriously suggesting Tebbit was telling the unemployed to fk off?crankedup said:
The immigrants are attracted to the U.K. seeing the over generous benefits and housing offered
I take your words to mean a racist and deeply prejudiced assertion that scrounging immigrants and lazy darkies only come here as they're attracted to our benefits and housing. I cannot see any other meaning to the words you used. How do you square that with the fact that the vast majority don't end up on benefits, but do end up in crap jobs on minimum wages that bone idle English people won't do because it doesn't pay them to do it? Or that they have skills, such as plumbing, that indigenous folk don't have the drive or ethic to equip themselves with? Or that they work harder?
Edited by Andy Zarse on Monday 20th February 15:26
crankedup said:
Simple - the Political Party seeking Election to Government sets out in broad terms its five year plan, if elected the Government goes about implementing that plan during the course of its five year period.
.
Hmm. Except that's not how it works is it? Victory goes to who bribes best! Politicians will say anything to get their hands on the levers of power. Blatant untruths As an example, Nu Labour spent 13 years saying it had abolished boom and bust and giving its voters free money and computers. Naturally, anything that anyone else had to say that couldn't match this would be dismissed out of hand by the electorate!.
crankedup said:
Now Cameron did not advise the electorate that the Conservatives would be making major structural changes to the NHS, in fact he inferred the opposite. Exactly the same as the Conservative Government under Thatcher, they did not tell the electorate we intend to shut down our coal mining industry, a major part of British Industry. So prospective candidates tell us broadly their plans and if elected go about implementing those plans. It all starts with the great U.K. public deciding if the mandate is broadly acceptable as a principle.
Are you going to jail those that tell lies about their plans? Because if you don't then you will get exactly what you've got now. FTR, I don't think Thatcher came to power with a plan to close UK coal mining industry. That's just left wing clap trap. What she did have however, was a plan and determination NOT to allow the miners unions to effectively hold the country to ransom and usurp the elected government of the day. The fact that the net effect was the decline of UK coal was down to Scargills disasterous "Light Brigade" charge onto the Conservative cannons of reform and resolve. Also, I'd take issue with your view on the ship building industry and its decline in the UK. This, more than anything else had far more to do with the Unions and so little to do with the Chinese. The restrictive practices and down right bloody mindedness of the unions simply had to be seen to be believed.
Chinese Ship building has only really emerged in the last 15 years or so. Before that, it was the Koreans and the Japanese who took UK ship building jobs, , so the whole "they work for a bowl of rice" is not quite accurate (even if the diet is similar).
Indeed, I believe the UK still has the largest dry dock in Europe (at H&W)which is easily big enough to build a VLCC, (indeed they used to make them there) The UK could be competitive for high end ships in new niches - such as LNG and LPG carriers, but no one seems to be THAT interested.
crankedup said:
These people can send the money 'home' and set up a lifestyle fit for a king and beyond their dreams by living and working in the U.K. for a limited period. So no comparison to a U.K. worker in Burnley for example moving to the S.E. for work, they simply could not afford to do that.
Maybe i'm missing your point, but what's the difference between sending the money home to Burnley or Krakow in your example - why can they simply could not afford to do that? Ok, the pay differential might not be as large but it's better than nothing - no? It almost seems like you're making up loads of excuses for people to avoid work, instead of trying to work around problems.fido said:
Maybe i'm missing your point, but what's the difference between sending the money home to Burnley or Krakow in your example - why can they simply could not afford to do that? Ok, the pay differential might not be as large but it's better than nothing - no? It almost seems like you're making up loads of excuses for people to avoid work, instead of trying to work around problems.
There is nothing in it for me to make excuses for those that do not work! I only argue the political side and its effects on people. I am no more in favour of seeing people out of work than almost everybody else in here. You have not responded to the problem of housing cost, how will the family afford the housing cost in the S.E. (Bed and Breakfast)and send money home for his/her family rent or mortgage and afford the travel cost at weekend to see family? And we are talking mainly of those with an industrial or engineering background of which little exists in the S.E. The pay differential you mention is bloody massive. 6.00 quid an hour and shared accommodation for immigrants is a fortune in money and well worth roughing it.Andy Zarse said:
I take your words to mean a racist and deeply prejudiced assertion that scrounging immigrants and lazy darkies only come here as they're attracted to our benefits and housing. I cannot see any other meaning to the words you used.
How do you square that with the fact that the vast majority don't end up on benefits, but do end up in crap jobs on minimum wages that bone idle English people won't do because it doesn't pay them to do it? Or that they have skills, such as plumbing, that indigenous folk don't have the drive or ethic to equip themselves with? Or that they work harder?
You are way off the mark and need to think in different ways, you seem to have a dark mind by reading into my post such things me being racist, I find that deeply offensive and irrational. What I post is what most people agree with, we have been flooded with immigrants attracted by our benefits, housing and better pay, what you see as offensive in that I fail to understand. Look upon our trades like this, a certain amount of money is needed to live and pay for expensive housing, food and taxation so it was very easy for immigrant workers to undercut those rates, and that is what they did. Now the work is drying up many of these people are going back home.How do you square that with the fact that the vast majority don't end up on benefits, but do end up in crap jobs on minimum wages that bone idle English people won't do because it doesn't pay them to do it? Or that they have skills, such as plumbing, that indigenous folk don't have the drive or ethic to equip themselves with? Or that they work harder?
Edited by Andy Zarse on Monday 20th February 15:26
As for the infamous 'on yer bike', so exactly was Tebbit saying to the mass unemployed when he gave this speech? You know as well as everybody else it was yet another off the cuff remark which was an insight into just how out of touch he was to the ordinary working person of the time. It was arrogance and ignorance such as this that bedevilled the Conservatives for decades following the demise of Thatcher. OK they were offered one last chance with Major, but he turned out to be reasonable so they wanted him out and then the Party imploded.
andymadmak said:
Are you going to jail those that tell lies about their plans? Because if you don't then you will get exactly what you've got now. FTR, I don't think Thatcher came to power with a plan to close UK coal mining industry. That's just left wing clap trap. What she did have however, was a plan and determination NOT to allow the miners unions to effectively hold the country to ransom and usurp the elected government of the day. The fact that the net effect was the decline of UK coal was down to Scargills disasterous "Light Brigade" charge onto the Conservative cannons of reform and resolve.
Also, I'd take issue with your view on the ship building industry and its decline in the UK. This, more than anything else had far more to do with the Unions and so little to do with the Chinese. The restrictive practices and down right bloody mindedness of the unions simply had to be seen to be believed.
Chinese Ship building has only really emerged in the last 15 years or so. Before that, it was the Koreans and the Japanese who took UK ship building jobs, , so the whole "they work for a bowl of rice" is not quite accurate (even if the diet is similar).
Indeed, I believe the UK still has the largest dry dock in Europe (at H&W)which is easily big enough to build a VLCC, (indeed they used to make them there) The UK could be competitive for high end ships in new niches - such as LNG and LPG carriers, but no one seems to be THAT interested.
I simply state what I believe, and yes those Politicians that lie should be held to account, why the hell not, they are paid to do a job. You clearly have no defence or argument when I talk about Thatcher not having the mandate to close our coal mines, simple as that. The fact Scargill stood up against the Government and thus the strikes was as a direct result of the assault by the Government on the miners livings. I say yet again, the Government should have been more imaginative in their policies regarding Unions at that time. I do agree the Unions played a large part in the demise of our industries, I have acknowledged this previously. Also, I'd take issue with your view on the ship building industry and its decline in the UK. This, more than anything else had far more to do with the Unions and so little to do with the Chinese. The restrictive practices and down right bloody mindedness of the unions simply had to be seen to be believed.
Chinese Ship building has only really emerged in the last 15 years or so. Before that, it was the Koreans and the Japanese who took UK ship building jobs, , so the whole "they work for a bowl of rice" is not quite accurate (even if the diet is similar).
Indeed, I believe the UK still has the largest dry dock in Europe (at H&W)which is easily big enough to build a VLCC, (indeed they used to make them there) The UK could be competitive for high end ships in new niches - such as LNG and LPG carriers, but no one seems to be THAT interested.
The pay rates are disgusting in those Countries you mention, we had the very best ship building quality in the world, so we agree on that. But we cannot compete against 50p per hour rates. This is why these Countries have grown so strongly over the decades, the labour pools are so vast their business can afford to pay peanuts and oppress and abuse workers, which is exactly what has happened. Are you in favour of such practices.
don4l said:
No, you don't.
You are simply making it up because it suits your political agenda.
Maybe, the LibDems will learn that lying is unacceptable when Huhne gets a 6 month sentence.
Don
--
I stand corrected. I remember all the fuss surrounding the actual words he used, and the inference of what he said is what I actually remember. That is 'get on yer bikes', a politician that harks back to what his Father did back in the year dot and thinks that's relevant years and years later. It beggars belief then as much as now.You are simply making it up because it suits your political agenda.
Maybe, the LibDems will learn that lying is unacceptable when Huhne gets a 6 month sentence.
Don
--
Lets wait and see what the Jury say about Huhne.
crankedup said:
don4l said:
No, you don't.
You are simply making it up because it suits your political agenda.
Maybe, the LibDems will learn that lying is unacceptable when Huhne gets a 6 month sentence.
I stand corrected. I remember all the fuss surrounding the actual words he used, and the inference of what he said is what I actually remember. That is 'get on yer bikes', a politician that harks back to what his Father did back in the year dot and thinks that's relevant years and years later. It beggars belief then as much as now.You are simply making it up because it suits your political agenda.
Maybe, the LibDems will learn that lying is unacceptable when Huhne gets a 6 month sentence.
Lets wait and see what the Jury say about Huhne.
Nice tune for Huhne
Don't forget to click the "Like" button!
Don
--
Andy Zarse said:
The pit closures came ten years after the strike was over. This was on John Major's watch, and were orchestrated by a Tory Leftie hated by almost everyone; Michael Hesletine. The manner in which it was conducted was appalling and did garner some sympathy. However, I was referring to hatred of the miners in the 70's and 80's. They had very little support beyond Labour party and union activists, and even then...
CLOSURES IN 1984, MARCH ONWARDS Bearpark, Co Durham
Cronton, Merseyside
CLOSURES IN 1985
Aberpergwm, South Wales
Abertillery, South Wales
Ackton Hall, Yorkshire
Bedwas, South Wales
Bold, Merseyside
Brenkley, Tyne and Wear
Brookhouse, Yorkshire
Cortonwood, Yorkshire
Emley Moor, Yorkshire
Fryston, Yorkshire
Garw, South Wales
Haig, Cumbria
Herrington, Co Durham
Margam, South Wales
Moor Green, Nottinghamshire
Penrhiwceiber, South Wales
Pye Hill, Nottinghamshire
Sacriston, Co Durham
St Johns, South Wales
Savile, Yorkshire
Treforgan, South Wales
Wolstanton, Staffordshire
Yorkshire Main, Yorkshire
CLOSURES IN 1986
Babbington, Nottinghamshire
Bates, Northumberland
Bersham, North Wales
Birch Coppice, Warwickshire
Cadeby, Yorkshire
Comrie, Fife
Cwm, South Wales
Eppleton, Co Durham
Glasshoughton, Yorkshire
Horden, Co Durham
Kinsley, Yorkshire
Ledston Luck, Yorkshire
Nantgarw / Winsor, South Wales
Polkemmet, West Lothian
Tilmanstone, Kent
Whitwell, Nottinghamshire
Whitwick/ South Leicester, Leicestershire
CLOSURES IN 1987
Newstead, Nottinghamshire
Nostell, Yorkshire
Polmaise 3/4, Stirling
Snowdown, Kent
Wheldale, Yorkshire
Whittal, Co Durham
Woolley, Yorkshire
Silverwood, Yorkshire
CLOSURES IN 1988
Abernant, South Wales
Arkwright, Derbyshire
Ashington, Northumberland
Cadley Hill, Derbyshire
Lady Winsor / Abercynon, South Wales
Linby, Nottinghamshire
Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
Manvers complex, Yorkshire
Seafield/ Frances, Fife
South Kirkby/ Riddings, Yorkshire
CLOSURES IN 1989
Baddesley, Warwickshire
Barnburgh, Yorkshire
Barony, Ayreshire
Betteshanger, Kent
Bilston Glen, Mid Lothian
Blidworth, Nottinghamshire
Cynheidre, South Wales
Holditch, Staffordshire
Marine/ Six Bells, South Wales
Merthyr Vale, South Wales
Oakdale, South Wales
Renishaw Park, Yorkshire
Royston, Yorkshire
Sutton, Nottinghamshire
Trelewis, South Wales
Warsop, Nottinghamshire
CLOSURES IN 1990
Agecroft, Lancashire
Ellistown, Leicestershire
Lea Hall, Staffordshire
Littleton, Staffordshire
Shireoaks/ Steetley, Nottinghamshire
Treeton, Yorkshire
Donnisthorpe/ Rawdon, Leicestershire
Florence, Cumbria
John Major
CLOSURES IN 1991
Askern, Yorkshire
Bagworth, Leicestershire
Barnsley Main, Yorkshire
Creswell, Derbyshire
Dawdon, Co Durham
Dearne Valley, Yorkshire
Deep Navigation, South Wales
Denby Grange, Yorkshire
Dinnington, Yorkshire
Gedling, Nottinghamshire
Murton, Co Durham
Penallta, South Wales
Sutton Manor, Merseyside
Thurcroft, Yorkshire
CLOSURES IN 1992
Allerton Bywater, Yorkshire
Bickershaw Complex, Lancashire
Cotgrave, Nottinghamshire
Sherwood, Nottinghamshire
Shirebrook, Derbyshire
Silverhill, Nottinghamshire
CLOSURES IN 1993
Bentley, Yorkshire
Bolsover, Derbyshire
Easington, Co Durham
Frickley/S Elmsall, Yorkshire
Grimethorpe, Yorkshire
Houghton/Darfield, Yorkshire
Parkside, Merseyside
Rufford, Nottinghamshire
Sharlston, Yorkshire
Taff Merthyr, South Wales
Vane Tempest/ Seaham, Co Durham
Westoe, Tyne and Wear
CLOSURES IN 1994
Goldthorpe/ Hickelton, Yorkshire
Kiveton Park, Yorkshire
Markham, Derbyshire
Manton, Nottinghamshire
Ollerton, Nottinghamshire
Wearmouth, Co Durham
10 years after the strike was over
CLOSURES IN 1995
Bilsthorpe, Nottinghamshire
CLOSURES IN 1996
Coventry, West Midlands
Hem Heath, Staffordshire
Markham Main, Yorkshire
Point of Ayr, North Wales
Labour
CLOSURES IN 1998
Silverdale, Staffordshire
Monktonhall, Mid Lothian
CLOSURES IN 1999
Calverton, Nottinghamshire
North Selby, Yorkshire
CLOSURES IN 2000
Annesley / Bentinck, Nottinghamshire
Blaenant, South Wales
CLOSURES IN 2002
Longannet complex, Fife
Prince of Wales, Yorkshire
CLOSURES IN 2003
Betws, South Wales
Clipstone, Nottinghamshire
The miners had considerable support amongst the public in general. However the miners' strike ended it. Either that or Scargill did. There was condierable folklore about the miners, much of it rubbish. The old miners used to drink to: The last miner out of the last pit. They've almost got their wish.
crankedup said:
Globs said:
And thanks to NuLabour making benefits far more lucrative and reliable than getting a job, we have trouble even blaming them.
NuLabour: Shafting the working man.
Its all pre-supposing stuff alongside what-if the coal mining industry hadn't been closed down.NuLabour: Shafting the working man.
NuLabour shafted the working man good and proper, make no mistake.
crankedup said:
<snip> I will always maintain that the Government of the day not only destroyed Unions but they destroyed swathes of society and towns which have still not recovered.
towns that will not allow themselve to progress beyond the time, meanwhile the inward investment industires are having to bus immigrants from the nearest big city .... because the 3rd generation dole bludgers won't do an honest days work Edited by crankedup on Sunday 19th February 12:37
Globs said:
crankedup said:
Globs said:
And thanks to NuLabour making benefits far more lucrative and reliable than getting a job, we have trouble even blaming them.
NuLabour: Shafting the working man.
Its all pre-supposing stuff alongside what-if the coal mining industry hadn't been closed down.NuLabour: Shafting the working man.
NuLabour shafted the working man good and proper, make no mistake.
Doesn't make the Tories any better mind, just levels the playing field between the two main parties.
All politicians suffer from the same piss poor default setting that, if we the electorate allow to go unchecked as in the past, lets 'em get away with it.
In a democracy such as ours (that other countries in the world at this time can only dream of), the only way to start to bring about change is for ALL of us to vote when an election comes along,
even if all you submit is a defaced ballot paper. Your show of how unimpressed you are WILL be recorded. And that's SIGNIFICANTLY different than not bothering to vote!!
It would be the biggest wake up call you could ever give a politician of today.
Just sayin', is all.
Edited by pacman1 on Monday 20th February 21:35
crankedup said:
Johnnytheboy said:
In the 70s?
Do you have any idea how many days labour were lost due to industrial action over pay during the Blitz?
That's right, during the fking Blitz. When people were dying to defend democracy, several coal mines were on strike over pay.
Or if that seems a bit far fetched, in the late 40s the UK tried to invest some of its Marshall Plan funds in modernising the ship building industry to try and stem the flow of work abroad (caused in large part by the increased costs and unreliable lead times due to strike action).
One method of choice was to bring in automated welding machines, like the Germans and Japs were doing. The shipbuilding unions' response? To successfully demand that - even though these machines required about 20% of the manpower to do the same amount of welding - there was no change in the number of welders employed per ship. That's right, shipyards were employing four welders to stand there while one operated the new machines.
Now we have no ship building industry that isn't propped up by autarkic defence projects. Funny that.
Odd, have another go at reading my post that you are responding to. I swear you lot just trot out the same old sDo you have any idea how many days labour were lost due to industrial action over pay during the Blitz?
That's right, during the f
king Blitz. When people were dying to defend democracy, several coal mines were on strike over pay. Or if that seems a bit far fetched, in the late 40s the UK tried to invest some of its Marshall Plan funds in modernising the ship building industry to try and stem the flow of work abroad (caused in large part by the increased costs and unreliable lead times due to strike action).
One method of choice was to bring in automated welding machines, like the Germans and Japs were doing. The shipbuilding unions' response? To successfully demand that - even though these machines required about 20% of the manpower to do the same amount of welding - there was no change in the number of welders employed per ship. That's right, shipyards were employing four welders to stand there while one operated the new machines.
Now we have no ship building industry that isn't propped up by autarkic defence projects. Funny that.
te without reading the post.China took our shipbuilding away with its bowl of rice a day worker rates, don't blame it all on the Unions of the day. We could never have competed against that pay rate then, or now. Bash the Chinese pay rates and business models instead, we cannot compete against them in terms of price, only quality, it was true thirty years ago as much as it is now. I suggest you have a critical look at how the rest of the World 'do business' before constantly blaming Unions for the demise of British Industry. I will concede that Unions were partly responsible alongside inept management and Governments.
Cammell Laird's GM said:
We have been waiting expectantly for news that the joiner strike in your yard has been settled. This news has not been forthcoming, and we are every day becoming more concerned with the tremendous increase in charter and interest costs... due to the delay in delivery.
Another ship owner speaking to Cammell Laird said:
We would recommend that on the completion of the machinery installation and trials you endeavour to arrange for completion of the vessel by some shipyard on the Continent.
The Bremen...Shipyard of.. Germany is familiar with the installation of the aluminium sheathing and the air ducts to be fitted (in the ship). Three similar vessels have already been delivered by this ship to the satisfaction of the owners
The Bremen...Shipyard of.. Germany is familiar with the installation of the aluminium sheathing and the air ducts to be fitted (in the ship). Three similar vessels have already been delivered by this ship to the satisfaction of the owners
President of Pan-Ore Inc. said:
This isn't the first time we've had a raw deal from Britain. In January 1951 we placed an order for two (ships) with the Burntisland Company (on the Firth of Forth). In May 1952 we placed an order exactly the same with some Swedish yards.
What happened? One Swedish ship was delivered 21 months after signature of contract and the second 26 months after signature. The British ships took 36 months and 52 months.
The Burntisland welders were on strike from March 2 to March 30, 1953. The shipwrights and shipwrights' apprentices struck May 11 to June 4. The caulkers were out from November 20 to January 14, 1954. During part of that same period the burners weren't working either. In March, 1954, the shipwrights had a slow-down to March, 1955, and the electricians had a five-week strike.
What happened? One Swedish ship was delivered 21 months after signature of contract and the second 26 months after signature. The British ships took 36 months and 52 months.
The Burntisland welders were on strike from March 2 to March 30, 1953. The shipwrights and shipwrights' apprentices struck May 11 to June 4. The caulkers were out from November 20 to January 14, 1954. During part of that same period the burners weren't working either. In March, 1954, the shipwrights had a slow-down to March, 1955, and the electricians had a five-week strike.
Someone quoting the same chap said:
His company would probably place their next order with Japan because they had had reports of very good workmanship there and it was possible to obtain both a firm price and a firm delivery date.
And finally, a comment by a visitor to a Liverpool shipyard in 1943 (when the battle of the Atlantic was still raging) on the shipyard workers:visitor said:
There’s a group of them always to be seen in the bottom of the hold round a brazier. What they’re supposed to be doing, I don’t know. They’re never working when I see them. A Government official who accompanied me said... “Just take a look as we walk round and see if you discovery anybody working”. He added that he makes these sorts of visits from time to time and the sight makes him almost weep – he estimates (somewhat satirically) that the men working are one in ten.
I don’t think it took cheap foreign labour to send our shipyards under. It was as much to do with the unreliability of our workforce as their cost.Brackets and elipses are where I've trimmed out long names and proper nouns that added nothing. I can of course reference this lot if anyone cares
crankedup said:
Simple - the Political Party seeking Election to Government sets out in broad terms its five year plan, if elected the Government goes about implementing that plan during the course of its five year period.
Now Cameron did not advise the electorate that the Conservatives would be making major structural changes to the NHS, in fact he inferred the opposite. Exactly the same as the Conservative Government under Thatcher, they did not tell the electorate we intend to shut down our coal mining industry, a major part of British Industry. So prospective candidates tell us broadly their plans and if elected go about implementing those plans. It all starts with the great U.K. public deciding if the mandate is broadly acceptable as a principle.
The electorate had a choice of several manifestos, and chose none. The eventual winners fudged both of theirs into one that more suited the actual economic situation in their collective view. Did the minority partner in the coalition come clean about tuition fees?Now Cameron did not advise the electorate that the Conservatives would be making major structural changes to the NHS, in fact he inferred the opposite. Exactly the same as the Conservative Government under Thatcher, they did not tell the electorate we intend to shut down our coal mining industry, a major part of British Industry. So prospective candidates tell us broadly their plans and if elected go about implementing those plans. It all starts with the great U.K. public deciding if the mandate is broadly acceptable as a principle.
You also skipped the question about who would decide NHS funding and taxation if not parliament.
Crankedup needs a quick reminder of how our parliamentary Govt works. At a general election, all parties take their political philosophy to the electorate. For presentational ease, this is conventionally set out in a manifesto summarising the party's point of view on key issues. The manifesto is NOT a contract between the electorate and a party and once a party or parties form a Govt, they can ignore some or all of their manifesto as they please.
Yes, the Conservatives were - let's be charitable - delphic on health. They would however, quite legitimately, argue that they placed fixing the economy at the top of their agenda and, therefore, the electorate should have been perfectly aware that the NHS was going to come in for some swingeing reform
Yes, the Conservatives were - let's be charitable - delphic on health. They would however, quite legitimately, argue that they placed fixing the economy at the top of their agenda and, therefore, the electorate should have been perfectly aware that the NHS was going to come in for some swingeing reform
Crankedup needs a quick reminder of how our parliamentary Govt works. At a general election, all parties take their political philosophy to the electorate. For presentational ease, this is conventionally set out in a manifesto summarising the party's point of view on key issues. The manifesto is NOT a contract between the electorate and a party and once a party or parties form a Govt, they can ignore some or all of their manifesto as they please.
Yes, the Conservatives were - let's be charitable - delphic on health. They would however, quite legitimately, argue that they placed fixing the economy at the top of their agenda and, therefore, the electorate should have been perfectly aware that the NHS was going to come in for some swingeing reform
Yes, the Conservatives were - let's be charitable - delphic on health. They would however, quite legitimately, argue that they placed fixing the economy at the top of their agenda and, therefore, the electorate should have been perfectly aware that the NHS was going to come in for some swingeing reform
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