Scargill, still causing trouble
Discussion
crankedup said:
Many do not agree with the man or his cause, but at least he is true to them and sincere, which is more than can be said about many politicians.
Add, of course in retirement he only has himself to be true to!
You have got to be joking? You might be able to say that about Trotski or Hitler, but Scargill? Add, of course in retirement he only has himself to be true to!
Telling that you call him a politician rather than a union leader. It's well known that you lefties use conditions of employment and the slavish obedience of union members to further political ends, thank you, it's nice to see it enunciated so clearly here.
Slaav said:
From memory, he is a thieving scumbag.
He (correct me if I am wrong) arranged for him and his family to be housed in a very nice house for life! Good perk.
He was Life President at one point and changed the rules so that could not be changed?
He changed the constitution of tge NUM so that he and his family could never lose their very healthy pensions and perks. And some idiots within the NUM allowed all of this. Despite it being so obviously wrong and unconstitutional.
Madness!
As Ian Hislop (I seem to recall) put on HIGNFY: "It was something to do with a leader of a very large union who lived in a small house, becoming the leader of a very small union but living in a very large house"He (correct me if I am wrong) arranged for him and his family to be housed in a very nice house for life! Good perk.
He was Life President at one point and changed the rules so that could not be changed?
He changed the constitution of tge NUM so that he and his family could never lose their very healthy pensions and perks. And some idiots within the NUM allowed all of this. Despite it being so obviously wrong and unconstitutional.
Madness!
Andy Zarse said:
You have got to be joking? You might be able to say that about Trotski or Hitler, but Scargill?
Telling that you call him a politician rather than a union leader. It's well known that you lefties use conditions of employment and the slavish obedience of union members to further political ends, thank you, it's nice to see it enunciated so clearly here.
One minor detail that I need to correct you on, I have not called the man a politician, that is a classic case of misrepresentation. I will maintain that the Conservative Government of the period created far more damage to the U.K. by destroying the coal mining industry.Telling that you call him a politician rather than a union leader. It's well known that you lefties use conditions of employment and the slavish obedience of union members to further political ends, thank you, it's nice to see it enunciated so clearly here.
don4l said:
I really struggle to understand Socialism.
Don
--
It's simple. It's the most efficient form of capitalism. Don
--
You keep all the power and wealth at the top and imprison and kill anyone who doesn't tow the company line while paying bugger all to the peasants.
The problem is getting the right balance in the level of fear and murder. Too much or too little and the peasants think they can take your job and wealth.
But generally it is an excellent system if you like the idea of being extremely wealthy while also butchering innocents.
I have to say that while some aspects do appeal I generally prefer the softer capitalist system where a man can be born with nothing and become what they want to be.
Scargill is just a sick and dishonest man who used the lives of thousands of innocent and downtrodden people to further his own ambitions. Badly wired up like sociopaths and kiddy fiddlers.
True equality and fairness can only come from freedom, not slavery. From honesty, not fear.
DonkeyApple said:
It's simple. It's the most efficient form of capitalism.
You keep all the power and wealth at the top and imprison and kill anyone who doesn't tow the company line while paying bugger all to the peasants.
The problem is getting the right balance in the level of fear and murder. Too much or too little and the peasants think they can take your job and wealth.
But generally it is an excellent system if you like the idea of being extremely wealthy while also butchering innocents.
I have to say that while some aspects do appeal I generally prefer the softer capitalist system where a man can be born with nothing and become what they want to be.
Scargill is just a sick and dishonest man who used the lives of thousands of innocent and downtrodden people to further his own ambitions. Badly wired up like sociopaths and kiddy fiddlers.
True equality and fairness can only come from freedom, not slavery. From honesty, not fear.
Looks like your getting your Socialism and Communism confused. I'm no Scargill fan but we have to remember the bloke was voted in by the Union Membership, as was his rise to the Presidential position. All this with the blessing of Union Committee's of the time. You keep all the power and wealth at the top and imprison and kill anyone who doesn't tow the company line while paying bugger all to the peasants.
The problem is getting the right balance in the level of fear and murder. Too much or too little and the peasants think they can take your job and wealth.
But generally it is an excellent system if you like the idea of being extremely wealthy while also butchering innocents.
I have to say that while some aspects do appeal I generally prefer the softer capitalist system where a man can be born with nothing and become what they want to be.
Scargill is just a sick and dishonest man who used the lives of thousands of innocent and downtrodden people to further his own ambitions. Badly wired up like sociopaths and kiddy fiddlers.
True equality and fairness can only come from freedom, not slavery. From honesty, not fear.
crankedup said:
Johnnytheboy said:
Best thing that happened to the cause of trade unionism in decades.
Achieved more than decades of moderation could have done to wake this country from being the 'sick man of Europe'.
As opposed to the whole of Europe now being sick.Achieved more than decades of moderation could have done to wake this country from being the 'sick man of Europe'.
Maybe we could hire him out to Euro members.
"Lions led by donkeys" is a WW1 phrase that springs to mind....
Let's be honest, there's not many on here that would swap their job for going down a pit in filthy conditions, with no natural daylight for 30 odd years, to say nothing of the danger, I certainly wouldn't....., however, by the early eighties coal seams were starting to run down, coal could be bought cheaper from abroad, and most people were sick to death of militant trade unions......1978/9 winter of discontent/ "Red Robbo" at BL etc.
Scargill was a man of his time, but (imo) did the working miner no favours in the long term.
Let's be honest, there's not many on here that would swap their job for going down a pit in filthy conditions, with no natural daylight for 30 odd years, to say nothing of the danger, I certainly wouldn't....., however, by the early eighties coal seams were starting to run down, coal could be bought cheaper from abroad, and most people were sick to death of militant trade unions......1978/9 winter of discontent/ "Red Robbo" at BL etc.
Scargill was a man of his time, but (imo) did the working miner no favours in the long term.
Wacky Racer said:
Scargill was a man of his time, but (imo) did the working miner no favours in the long term.
Scargill was (is?) a complete irrational nutjob.Prior to the Miners' Strike he appeared before Parliament and stated as a matter of faith that it was in his view "impossible" for any pit to be uneconomical and that if one appeared to be, the only reason it was so was because more investment was needed (i.e. government subsidy).
The NUM strike was never lawful and despite being a so-called defender of the "working man", his thugs did all they could to stop other miners trying to work. The Morning Star even printed the addresses of non-striking miners so that many were threatened and intimidated in their own homes, so much for "class solidarity".
Scargill was a delusional Marxist who believed (with good reason at the time) that a British government would always be defeated by the miners going on strike. People forget that most miners did not vote to go on strike and that Scargill used the NUM to deliberately try to bring down a democratically-elected government.
Ironically the Tories had not planned to close most of the pits before the strike, but the behaviour of the NUM meant that no one would touch them with a barge pole afterwards, and now they're all shut.
The man did more than anyone to destroy the communities he was supposedly defending. An ignorant, deluded bully.
Wacky Racer said:
however, by the early eighties coal seams were starting to run down, coal could be bought cheaper from abroad, and most people were sick to death of militant trade unions......1978/9 winter of discontent/ "Red Robbo" at BL etc.
'Most people' may or may not have been sick to death of militant unions but there was considerable support for the miners, especially so in the early months. Wiki recons that it was 40 : 33 for government : miners. It was Thatcher who suffered, at one time being 'the most unpopular PM of all time' (don't know how they now that). Given how miners were treated and their conditions before and immediately after WWII it was remarkable that it dropped that far.crankedup said:
Looks like your getting your Socialism and Communism confused. I'm no Scargill fan but we have to remember the bloke was voted in by the Union Membership, as was his rise to the Presidential position. All this with the blessing of Union Committee's of the time.
Mentioning a committee infers democracy. Scargill tolerated and manipulated the former to defeat the latter. I think he was only once 'properly' voted in as the 'great leader' of the NUM. And that vote has always been questioned - admittedly with a modern take on things and understanding of the bigger picture.
The fact that his own little gravy train and retirement cannot be removed or changed is not democratic or fair.
Scargill was always deluded and it was never about 'his members' and the common man; it was always about him and his ego. To suggest otherwise implies a simplicity that is unexpected in someone able to type and spell....
Apache said:
AAGR said:
For 'Scargill', you could also substitute 'Bob Crow ....'
I hope not, that would suggest that Crow would progress from merely being a 
to a destroyer of communitiesSo when Boris automates the tube it won't cause the problems the pit closures did.
Wacky Racer said:
"Lions led by donkeys" is a WW1 phrase that springs to mind....
Let's be honest, there's not many on here that would swap their job for going down a pit in filthy conditions, with no natural daylight for 30 odd years, to say nothing of the danger, I certainly wouldn't....., however, by the early eighties coal seams were starting to run down, coal could be bought cheaper from abroad, and most people were sick to death of militant trade unions......1978/9 winter of discontent/ "Red Robbo" at BL etc.
Scargill was a man of his time, but (imo) did the working miner no favours in the long term.
And the deep coal seams will be brought back in the near future not by miners, but using automated underground coal gasification.The U.K is sitting on millions.Should play a significant role in getting us out of the mess we are currently in... Let's be honest, there's not many on here that would swap their job for going down a pit in filthy conditions, with no natural daylight for 30 odd years, to say nothing of the danger, I certainly wouldn't....., however, by the early eighties coal seams were starting to run down, coal could be bought cheaper from abroad, and most people were sick to death of militant trade unions......1978/9 winter of discontent/ "Red Robbo" at BL etc.
Scargill was a man of his time, but (imo) did the working miner no favours in the long term.
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