Rape Gang - How'd they get away with it for so long?

[-Z-]

carmonk said:

And it's that attitude which allows this kind of behaviour to go unchallenged.

How? That was a general comment on how unfair stereotyping can be, which relates back to the point of how problematic it is for the media to present these cases.

E.g. Watch Geordie Shore :spit: A foreigner may deduce that every English woman is a slag. Or England has a culture of slags. Or is it more fair to say every Geordie woman is a slag? Or is it only a few Geordie girls that are slags?

I'm sure if you had a Cornish wife you would resent the first and second statement but not necessarily the third? Would your Cornish wife be upset that Geordie girls are seen abroad to represent every English woman? That is similar to how I and many other Muslims feel right now.

12gauge said:

religion has the blood of millions on its hands

And yet someone with no strong religious views instigated just as many deaths between 1939-1945.

Edited by -Z- on Wednesday 22 February 00:51

[mybrainhurts]

-Z- said:

12gauge said:

religion has the blood of millions on its hands

And yet someone with no strong religious views instigated just as many deaths between 1939-1945.

True, and religion has the blood of millions on its hands. No wriggle room there, old boy.

[-Z-]

mybrainhurts said:

True, and religion has the blood of millions on its hands. No wriggle room there, old boy.

Not trying to wriggle, just pointing out that it is facile argument, ultimately anyone can be a .

[Lost_BMW]

7mike said:

Mojooo said:

Perhaps, but just because a load of brown people live together doesnt mean they are all best mates or know the ins and outs of eachothers lives - even if they may share a stronger bond that a similar grouping of white people elsewhere.

The media loves overplaying the 'community' card but IME (and I know a lot of ethnic minorities) the 'community' is almost never as tight knit as is implied.

That's fair enough.
However how the fk to peadophiles get to know they share the same tastes? OK, I can understand how the internet allowed them to 'pool resources' but ffs a bunch of blokes who all know each other! It's not like you'd sit in the pub (or kebab shop)with your mates and it would just crop up in conversation; "Actually guy's, a have a confesion to make........" "That's a bloody coincidence..." "Well count me in, I'll give anything a go...."

I'd just been wondering about the same thing - as with the pair of "Railway killers" was it , a few years back. How is it that murderers, rapists, child abusers et al seem to be able to gravitate towards/ find/ confide in others with similarly depraved values? Especially when it isn't 'link by internet' related.

It astounded me when it was two, but eleven! If you were a pervert would you really expect to have ten friends, relatives or co-workers of the same kind? It sounds mad, but it's happening. Imagine you were at a taxi rank and pointed to say, 6 guys and said, "I bet 2/3 of them are child rapists.", you'd seem like a lunatic to make such a claim, but, here we have 4 taxi drivers from one area involved.

How is it that the ring leaders have so many accomplices amongst their acquaintance? Baffling...

[mybrainhurts]

-Z- said:

mybrainhurts said:

True, and religion has the blood of millions on its hands. No wriggle room there, old boy.

Not trying to wriggle, just pointing out that it is facile argument, ultimately anyone can be a .

True, but what's that got to do with the fact that religion was and is the cause of so much conflict? Or are you assuming the criticism was aimed only at Islam?

[-Z-]

mybrainhurts said:

True, but what's that got to do with the fact that religion was and is the cause of so much conflict? Or are you assuming the criticism was aimed only at Islam?

The point is that conflict in a fundamental aspect of the Human psyche for a significant proportion of people. Conflict was around way before any type of organised religion. Conflict is a fundamental aspect of life. Be it macro-biological or microbiological.

Organised sport: an evolved form of conflict.

Conflict always has been and always will be around. Only the weapons change.

[pork911]

Interesting lots of finger pointing at 'their' community, religion, ethnicity or whatever yet the victims in these recent cases are white and not much comment on their community's (since we're making distinctions) failings not noticing and or not caring about them enough that they aren't being abused and used.

[Digga]

shauniebabes said:

PC cowardice by the Police

I seldom find myself agreeing with you but know for a fact that, as regards certain communities (not religions) in the UK, you are correct. I fear those in charge of the force are ill equipped to navigate the minefield presented by tension between protecting the interests of the many, defending the rights of the few and tackling the enclaves of sub-sections of society where the law is clearly being broken.

[Bing o]

-Z- said:

Only 11% of the Worlds muslims are from Pakistan, did you know there are more Muslims from Indonesia than any other country in the World? How often do Indonesians cause trouble?

Quite a lot if you live in SE Asia. Bali bombings ring any bells? Plus various other low level st that goes down in the more fundamental parts of Indonesia:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12393...

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Muslim-students-att...

http://www.rescuechristians.org/index.php/2012/02/...

[Chrisw666]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Tonker I don't suppose making any sort of reasoned argument will help. I'd be willing to take a gamble that there are young girls from good homes, with caring and sometimes middle class parents being abused in the very same way to the ways those in this case were treated.

To blame the white 'community' is a stupid thing to do though, should white folk round themselves up into gated housing estates and boycott businesses ran by anyone who looks like they might be Pakistani, should we teach our children to fear and distrust anyone who has different skin to them, or should we instead root out the minority of filthy perverted bd rapists that hide inside close knit Asian communities probably posing as dutiful Asian sons or respectable family men that often base themselves around poor inner city areas that is more likely to have un-cared for children from deprived background with very low self-esteem, peers who are little better and parents who are so wrapped up in their own unresolved childhood issues or struggling with depression and debt to be capable of giving a st.

What thread like this seem to manage with shocking regularity is to highlight the number of folk on PH for whom the world is a very black and white place, where they cannot understand others don't share their values.

[heppers75]

Bing o said:

-Z- said:

Only 11% of the Worlds muslims are from Pakistan, did you know there are more Muslims from Indonesia than any other country in the World? How often do Indonesians cause trouble?

Quite a lot if you live in SE Asia. Bali bombings ring any bells? Plus various other low level st that goes down in the more fundamental parts of Indonesia:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12393...

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Muslim-students-att...

http://www.rescuechristians.org/index.php/2012/02/...

I have to say -Z- you have picked at a crap thread there and actually the majority of the rationale given for the significant upset that those Indonesians cause is their religious leaning not their country of origin.

It is unfortunately a very unpalatable truth but a truth nonetheless that their are large swathes of people who believe their sky pixie is best over all others that seek to cause what is generally accepted in the civilised world as disruption by acts of war, terrorism and other violence. Also they perform heinous acts either in the name of their sky pixie or justify their actions for other abhorrent acts because their sky pixies manual says it is ok.

The issue is as always there will be a large percentage of people who like the same sky pixie who are as disgusted at the acts of that minority of persons as any right thinking person is. However the challenge arises that when several hundred million follow the same sky pixie the percentages of those that are willing to perform said heinous acts does not have to even be out of single digits for it to be tens of thousands of individuals.

Edited by heppers75 on Wednesday 22 February 09:26

[Chrisw666]

I haven't spent a huge amount of time in those areas, but I do have a lot of experience in dealing with the remnants of broken families and the damaged children that are left behind. If in a town like mine with a population that is officially 97% White British in its demographic the biggest concern for the local police in relation to protecting children is a group of predominantly Asian men that have appeared in a few rented houses in very poor parts of town, and that have somehow formed 'friendships' with some very vulnerable female teenagers then I can see how the problem could be magnified when they are in their own communities.

[cazzer]

I grew up in Oldham.
The area I grew up in is now a Pakistani area.
The area my parents grew up in is now a bangladeshi area (so much so there was an official campaign a couple of years ago to change the name of the area to Bangla Town)

I left. Everyone I grew up with has left.

I live 20 miles away now. I never go back.

[Digga]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

In this instance and with this particular crime yes, but as another posted alluded, the police have - for whatever misguided reasons - walked on eggshells around some of these issues. I could take you to areas where the crimes appear to be centered around Iraqi immigrants, there are also distinct issues with some Somlais too (certainly in terms of their numbers in prison) for example - who'd have thought allowing free, uncontrlled and un-assisted (in terms of rehabilitation) immigration from war zones could ever be a problem?!

We've become so PC that the rights of honest, hardworking immigrants and genuine refugees have been forgotten for the sake of a broad-brush multi-culturalism.

[Apache]

Chrisw666 said:

Would there be any point suggesting that the fact that young Asian males often coat themselves in bling, drive cars with the right badges, have all the latest must have gadgets, and often act like wide boys makes them attractive to troubled young women?

I think you're barking up the wrong tree there Chris


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17...

[barmonkey]

Whatever happens, I hope they get stronger sentences than this:

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2012/02/21/rapists-jai...

Allowing a fair old pinch of salt due to the source but even so...

[Mermaid]

Digga said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

In this instance and with this particular crime yes, but as another posted alluded, the police have - for whatever misguided reasons - walked on eggshells around some of these issues. I could take you to areas where the crimes appear to be centered around Iraqi immigrants, there are also distinct issues with some Somlais too (certainly in terms of their numbers in prison) for example - who'd have thought allowing free, uncontrlled and un-assisted (in terms of rehabilitation) immigration from war zones could ever be a problem?!

We've become so PC that the rights of honest, hardworking immigrants and genuine refugees & honest, decent, hardworking natives have been forgotten for the sake of a broad-brush multi-culturalism.

Small edit.

Edited by Mermaid on Wednesday 22 February 10:25

[pork911]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

To distinguish sections of the community and blame them is stupid
- if its 'their' fault its all our fault.

If and only if people insist on distinguishing why then no blame for the 'white' community who failed the victims?

That is in no way attempting to excuse any guilty party's behaviour.

[Du1point8]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It sounds like he is trying to defend their actions, still blaming the UK for the fact these girls didn't get the help they needed (they were in care), the UK allowed these animals to drug the girls, therefore the UK allowed these girls to be raped and its not the fault of the animals but its all our fault.

Least thats what the ramblings look like to me.

[carmonk]

-Z- said:

carmonk said:

And it's that attitude which allows this kind of behaviour to go unchallenged.

How? That was a general comment on how unfair stereotyping can be, which relates back to the point of how problematic it is for the media to present these cases.

No, it was you saying that because some might find the truth offensive we should all keep quiet. I don't care who I offend. Nobody has the right to not be offended and nobody should allow themselves to be bullied into silence by these devious and emotive tactics, or frightened of not speaking their mind lest they be branded a racist.

-Z- said:

E.g. Watch Geordie Shore :spit: A foreigner may deduce that every English woman is a slag. Or England has a culture of slags. Or is it more fair to say every Geordie woman is a slag? Or is it only a few Geordie girls that are slags?

I wondered how long we'd have to wait before that straw-man was trotted out. Nobody said that all Pakistanis or all Muslims were involved in these crimes. What I said was that a disproportionate precentage are, and that the evidence points strongly to their communities turning a blind eye.

-Z- said:

I'm sure if you had a Cornish wife you would resent the first and second statement but not necessarily the third? Would your Cornish wife be upset that Geordie girls are seen abroad to represent every English woman? That is similar to how I and many other Muslims feel right now.

You have a lot to say condemning the people who are discussing the common factors in these crimes - Pakistani males and Islam / Islamic culture - but little to say about the actual criminals. Your first post was criticising posters here and not the people in the dock. That's why you receive criticism, not because you're a Muslim but because as soon as Islam or ethnicity is linked to crime you and other like-minded Muslims would rather try to suppress free speech than speak out in condemnation. How refreshing it would be to see a Pakistani or lefty on the news who instead of whining about being persecuted actually said yes, there's a problem in these communities and we're going to do our best to root it out. Maybe one day.