Austerity - when will it start?
Discussion
jules_s said:
Honestly,
I would (still) love to reply to that with some hard facts to back up the %ages but I'm not going to prejudice my employment.
Lets just say we had a budget of millions before the election; last year it was £0. This year it is about 90% down on the pre election budget figures which is being spent over a number of years on a rolling programme.
I can't explain the total Government expenditure going up when our budget is going so far down. They must be spending money somewhere, just not in my dept/scope of work (new education buildings)
In short it would appear this http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jul/05/sc... has kicked in.
If you've got a budget of £0, why are we still paying you?I would (still) love to reply to that with some hard facts to back up the %ages but I'm not going to prejudice my employment.
Lets just say we had a budget of millions before the election; last year it was £0. This year it is about 90% down on the pre election budget figures which is being spent over a number of years on a rolling programme.
I can't explain the total Government expenditure going up when our budget is going so far down. They must be spending money somewhere, just not in my dept/scope of work (new education buildings)
In short it would appear this http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jul/05/sc... has kicked in.
Some schools went ahead; after a bit of uncertaintly, a new academy started being built near us last October.
Edited by Deva Link on Sunday 4th March 10:20
pork911 said:
i like this over simplified way of explaining things http://www.flickr.com/photos/lazarette/6775505617/...
I like that.pork911 said:
2011 data will be interesting. In countries like Ireland where they got on with the job of cutting the Feb data shows...the budget deficit has actually increased over the last year
.pork911 said:
i like this over simplified way of explaining things http://www.flickr.com/photos/lazarette/6775505617/...
Equivalent household overall credit card debt of £100k is terrifying 
Emphasises how important (at risk) AAA rating is to UK economy. Certainly could not afford Barclaycard rates 
Well a good thing may have come out of the referendum, the end of austerity!
"Theresa May vows to abandon George Osborne's deficit target and rules out tax hikes if she becomes PM"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3667613/Th...
"Theresa May vows to abandon George Osborne's deficit target and rules out tax hikes if she becomes PM"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3667613/Th...
Fittster said:
Well a good thing may have come out of the referendum, the end of austerity!
"Theresa May vows to abandon George Osborne's deficit target and rules out tax hikes if she becomes PM"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3667613/Th...
Major tax breaks for everyone, vast increases in public spending and a job for every man, woman and child. All funded by that sweet £350m EU money we don't have to pay anymore."Theresa May vows to abandon George Osborne's deficit target and rules out tax hikes if she becomes PM"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3667613/Th...
At the last election the Tories promised no tax hikes and yet dividend rates have gone up big time, a key way for many ltd company owners to receive their annual income. So I wouldn't believe any of it.
Fittster said:
Tory Chancellor see economic sense shocker!
"Chancellor George Osborne has abandoned his target to restore government finances to a surplus by 2020.
It had been the chancellor's most prized goal and had been driving austerity measures in previous budgets."
I guess to believe that statement, you'd actually have to believe that spending more money than previous years represented 'austerity' in the first place..."Chancellor George Osborne has abandoned his target to restore government finances to a surplus by 2020.
It had been the chancellor's most prized goal and had been driving austerity measures in previous budgets."
Fittster said:
Tory Chancellor see economic sense shocker!
"Chancellor George Osborne has abandoned his target to restore government finances to a surplus by 2020.
It had been the chancellor's most prized goal and had been driving austerity measures in previous budgets."
Actually, I see this as Osbornes chance to wipe the slate clean and start again with brand new targets. Now he's got a very good excuse why the previous targets won't be met, as if he'd announced it at any other time he would have been crucified by the opposition. "Chancellor George Osborne has abandoned his target to restore government finances to a surplus by 2020.
It had been the chancellor's most prized goal and had been driving austerity measures in previous budgets."
On balance I've been pretty happy with Osborne's performance as Chancellor, he's been pretty steady overall in his tenure. I'm also pleased he hasn't (yet) joined the nutters in the leadership race, I'd rather he remained chancellor than anyone else.
Johnnytheboy said:
This "austerity" thing: is it just a pejorative term for "govt not spending more than it earns"?
Because that seems eminently sensible to me!
Not really, "austerity" was overspending a little less. A bit like only getting 9 new credit card this year rather than the 10 you were on course to need Because that seems eminently sensible to me!
We still borrow a billion every few days.
Edited by 98elise on Friday 1st July 15:38
Fittster said:
Tory Chancellor see economic sense shocker!
"Chancellor George Osborne has abandoned his target to restore government finances to a surplus by 2020.
It had been the chancellor's most prized goal and had been driving austerity measures in previous budgets."
He's just using events as an excuse. The last budget was pure fantasy, even last March it was impossible without big tax rises and more cuts."Chancellor George Osborne has abandoned his target to restore government finances to a surplus by 2020.
It had been the chancellor's most prized goal and had been driving austerity measures in previous budgets."
98elise said:
Johnnytheboy said:
This "austerity" thing: is it just a pejorative term for "govt not spending more than it earns"?
Because that seems eminently sensible to me!
Not really, "austerity" was overspending a little less. A bit like only getting 9 new credit card this year rather than the 10 you were on course to need Because that seems eminently sensible to me!
We still borrow a billion every few days.
Edited by 98elise on Friday 1st July 15:38
Do people really think that using a credit card is a good analogy is useful.
One of the hundreds of article pointing out why it doesn't work.
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-blanchflow...
idiot being slapped down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZNwdcESn90
Fittster said:
Arrrghhh.
Do people really think that using a credit card is a good analogy is useful.
One of the hundreds of article pointing out why it doesn't work.
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-blanchflow...
I just read that and get that the there is a balance of assets and liabilities, but is there something else I'm missing?? If the government is running a deficit to pay for public sector wages, consumable items, etc. then this is not investment, it's just spending... They aren't adding extra assets to the balance sheet?Do people really think that using a credit card is a good analogy is useful.
One of the hundreds of article pointing out why it doesn't work.
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-blanchflow...
XJ40 said:
I just read that and get that the there is a balance of assets and liabilities, but is there something else I'm missing?? If the government is running a deficit to pay for public sector wages, consumable items, etc. then this is not investment, it's just spending... They aren't adding extra assets to the balance sheet?
One of the biggest myths of the last Labour administration was that the debt was built up funding 'investment'.Blancmangeflower almost has a valid point about talking down consumer confidence, but he fails to acknowledge that consumers weren't they only audience. CMD and GO's message was also aimed at investors and the bond markets who needed to hear that someone was at least apparently serious about reducing the deficit. It was always going to be a balancing act and there was always going to be tension between reassuring consumers versus reassuring the debt markets, and between reducing the state sector and maintaining demand. It's just as stupid to ignore lenders' confidence as it is to ignore consumer confidence, and it's just as stupid to claim that all state spending accumulates productive assets as it is to claim that all state spending is money pissed up the wall.
In my view,
taking out "investment" expenditure is just a way of fudging the fact we are spending more than we are earning.
Gordon Brown did it for years (badly).
The money to pay for that investment has to come from somewhere, as does the interest on that debt.
I think we need to keep up levels of investments, and they are important for future cost avoidance, or generate future economic growth.
But to pretend you can just keep investing willy-nilly as if some rumplestiltskin type person will just make it all go away is bonkers.
As with most things, there should be more clarrity available on current spending and investment spending, which should then enable the media and public to have a better level of discussion about it.
But who would want to do that? Most chancellors spend their tenure hiding that sort of stuff.
Ian
taking out "investment" expenditure is just a way of fudging the fact we are spending more than we are earning.
Gordon Brown did it for years (badly).
The money to pay for that investment has to come from somewhere, as does the interest on that debt.
I think we need to keep up levels of investments, and they are important for future cost avoidance, or generate future economic growth.
But to pretend you can just keep investing willy-nilly as if some rumplestiltskin type person will just make it all go away is bonkers.
As with most things, there should be more clarrity available on current spending and investment spending, which should then enable the media and public to have a better level of discussion about it.
But who would want to do that? Most chancellors spend their tenure hiding that sort of stuff.
Ian
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