Private Policeforces!

Author
Discussion

jsc15

981 posts

209 months

Saturday 3rd March 2012
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There was a bit of trouble with this private law enforcement idea at the cabinet meeting, when a practical demonstration was brought in....







ED209

5,746 posts

245 months

Saturday 3rd March 2012
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I saw this coming, why do you think my user name is what it is?

Six Fiend

6,067 posts

216 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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A bit of Fry and Laurie some years ago...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLfghLQE3F4

speedy_thrills

7,760 posts

244 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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I love the idea of a private police force, this would be a great scam if you owned the company that took care of local policing and made sure they looked the other way when it was you committing the crime. Lads we could be a law unto ourselves and make a fortune through theft and extortion!

Even better if it's performance based, lets say it's 1000 quid per conviction we'll just employ someone to be a petty criminal for 500 (who will get a slap on the wrist as imprisonment is too expensive) and keep the profit. Repeat a few times a day and we'll be retiring in a few years to somewhere warm witn beautiful women and a couple of super cars out front. Who is in with me here?

Elroy Blue

8,689 posts

193 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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F i F said:
The job is fked.

/the end.

No energy any more.
This^^^^^

We've been told we've got to save fuel so have to park up and wait for 'a criminal to come to us'. Every department is being decimated. People are trying to carry on and do their best, but they're being hammered with one thing after another. I've never seen a more disillusioned workforce.



Eric Mc

122,050 posts

266 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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See what has happened with private contractors that enfotrce parking regulations. No profiteering or abuse of powers there.

F i F

44,113 posts

252 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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Elroy Blue said:
Every department is being decimated. People are trying to carry on and do their best, but they're being hammered with one thing after another. I've never seen a more disillusioned workforce.
Again this ^^^^^^

Have to work with what means are provided, feel displeased with the tasks to be done, feel retarded while going these retarded tasks that are still there. All along after massively long days somebody comes along and says, work harder.

It's one thing saying 20% cuts in manning, but if the complicated and stupid admin is still there, address why the whole caboodle is so complex, it's not a case of because there are too many employees, it is because there are excessively complex and time consuming tasks set by people who don't actually have to do anything other than rattle a keyboard, therefore admin is their raison d'être.

Chicken Chaser

7,812 posts

225 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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Totally agree with Elroy Blue and FIF, admin is choking the job so much, something which should be simple and straight forward takes hours. I know we have had this debate before. I know certain areas in our force are looking at using cars for only necessary journeys, making patrolling a thing of the past. I know some on here will say that they never see a car, which obviously means they live in quite a nice area!
There now seems to be so much politics involved, it is clouding basic problems.
Ive never known morale be so low. My mates tell me I should be grateful to have a secure job, despite none of them to be out of employment.

andy_s

19,401 posts

260 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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When I was in 15-20 years ago there was a massive campaign to 'clear the desks' of admin paperwork, new brooms came in, cut the paperwork by 10% and a few years later, with increased legislation, it went back to higher than ever levels.

"We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that, perhaps because we are so good at organizing, we tend as a nation to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralization."

That quote was stuck up on the wall of the CID office and dare I say still holds true today...

Edited by andy_s on Sunday 4th March 09:44

Derek Smith

45,677 posts

249 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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I was speaking with a detective from a regional crime unit. She said that they are now having to abandon major crimes. The forces are not equipped to deal with them so they pass them up to region. They have lost more than their fair share of staff so they have to cut the amount of work they do. They are not getting replacements either. So they are forced to 'sleeve' major crimes. There's no one to deal. She, as a lone DC, was dealing with a series of armed robberies. I was told that she used to think they were doing a good job but now it is just a case of struggling through.

If the 20% cut was across the board then it would have been, quite clearly, an attack on the police service. But this is much worse than that. The cut in operational manpower is much, much more than 20%.

Do they still issue producers? Because if they do then there is no real choice of stations. You have to travel miles to get to your nearest one.

I was a supporter of modification to the police service. I could see the logic behind removing non-essential tasks from the police and those not requiring a warrant card. But this is stupid. Vindictive seems to be the word.

A force not a million miels from where I live has said that they have increased the proportion of operational officers. There's a relief. In fact, though, there are about half the number of available officers and that will go down. Operational officers are now those in an office who are in theory on a shift, available to go out on patrol as long as it is on mutual aid to some other force area. But the figures are true. Of course the proportion of operational officers has gone up. They've sacked civilians.

A considerable number of operational officers never get out of course. They are doing the jobs that the basic rate plus 10% civvy staff were doing, taking statements, that sort of thing, before they were cut to save costs.

When the riots break out again and the police response is nowhere near what it was last summer the police will, of course, get the blame. But there are substantially fewer officers and the numbers will drop.

This privatisation of police services has been going on in a way for years. Cheap civilians were doing the mundane jobs and taking pressure from the operational officers. The difference being, though, is that the police were in day to day control and it was a damn site cheaper than these contracts will be.

I was chatting to a chap (a civvy) in the Mets at Christmas who told me that they had not been paid for the mutual aid for the riots. This despite the promise from this government that they would be. Anyone know if they have got it? It just seems typical of this government.

Derek Smith

45,677 posts

249 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
andy_s said:
When I was in 15-20 years ago there was a massive campaign to 'clear the desks' of admin paperwork, new brooms came in, cut the paperwork by 10% and a few years later, with increased legislation, it went back to higher than ever levels.

"We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that, perhaps because we are so good at organizing, we tend as a nation to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralization."

That quote was stuck up on the wall of the CID office and dare I say still holds true today...
I put in for the post of inspector in charge of the helicopter unit. I didn't really fancy the post but the weeding out process included flights in the copter, including at night - which were fabulous, a series of tests at Cranwell, and being turned upside down under water in a helio mock-up during which one person panicked and kicked me i the mouth splitting my lip.

The final obstacle was the interview. Not much of a problem as we all (four of us who had got through) knew who had got the post. The norm of course so no particular resentment there. So I prepared some special answers.

When I was asked what changes I would make to the unit, which was running very well under the previous inspector who fell out with his immediate supervisor, I said:

'For the first two months I will do absolutely nothing. I will collect information and monitor working practices. I will discuss helio operations with those who we've worked with, from supervisors to the officer on the ground, and ask their opinions. I will spend the next month working with the team (I couln't avoid some jargon) and then work out what, if any, modifications we can make. I will also look at on-costs.'

The pair interviewing me - the super was one of the most obnoxious I've worked with - were completely thrown. They didn't even have a follow up question, for which I had, rather uselessly, prepared some equally non-PC, or at least inspector, type answers. I gave them a smile. It went quiet and then moved on to other matters. The interview never really flowed if you know what I mean.

Had I wanted the post I would have come up with the ideas of major modifications to the systems, new desks, forms, probably painting the airfield blue, that sort of thing.

I got a pull from my superintendent for treating it as a bit of a joke but I did defend my answer strongly. I was in communications at the time and obviously worked quite closely with the helio and the inspector they kicked out ran a very tight unit. He used to phone after any operation and ask how it went. He would also speak with the controller who was on the incident. No wonder he was removed.


Elroy Blue

8,689 posts

193 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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Midlands force-Road Policing has been savaged. It has about 20% of the Officers it had before. A large number of those highly trained, highly experienced Officers are now in a call centre manning phones. A job previously done by civilian staff who have been made redundant.

Our department is now run by someone who is a whizz on spreadsheets and percentages, but has no experience whatsoever in our specialist role and has NEVER spent one day out on patrol with us to get an idea. Cut, cut, cut, yet demanding we concentrate on 'customer focus'

I'm now actively looking for jobs outside the Police. I really don't want any part of it anymore.

Halb

53,012 posts

184 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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Eric Mc said:
That didn't happen BECAUSE of privatisation. The privatisation happened because the government were not willing to spend directly on the replacement of old stock and infrastructure. They THOUGHT it would be more cost effective to privatise the system for a song and then expect private enterprise to make the necessary outlay.
In the end, the massive amount of government subsidisation of "privatised" rail is the main source of funding for a lot of the stock and infrastructure renewal. Indeed, the infrastructure has effectively been renationalised.
So, I don't think that the privatisation in itself of the railway system has brought about much benefit for the taxpayer. It still costs us all as taxpayers a hell of a lot of money.
Cost taxpayers money and made big profits for private companies. British privatisation at its best!biggrin

Derek your posts usually depress/mildly surprise me, and make me think the police force is bonkers.


Looks like Scotland is the place to be once they are independent?

Edited by Halb on Sunday 4th March 10:41

Derek Smith

45,677 posts

249 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Elroy Blue said:
Midlands force-Road Policing has been savaged. It has about 20% of the Officers it had before. A large number of those highly trained, highly experienced Officers are now in a call centre manning phones. A job previously done by civilian staff who have been made redundant.
I think you will find that they are still classed as operational.

Mojocvh

16,837 posts

263 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
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Elroy Blue said:
As a front line Officer, I've been warning on here if Cameron's mission to destroy the Police. I've been criticised for it. I warned of G4 taking over. The front line is being decimated. You have been warned.
They are already decimating the armed forces cut by cut by cut, at least you have a union to fight your case.

Good Luck.

Elroy Blue

8,689 posts

193 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
I'm sure they are. They're not out catching criminals though, which they were very good at. The interference and damage done by two successive Governments has finally Bourne fruit.

It has to be said, this Government has managed to decimate in 18 months what Labour failed in 13 years.

Next time you see May or Cameron saying it won't affect frontline Policing, you can know they are LYING. (but they're politicians, do we shouldn't expect anything else really)

andy_s

19,401 posts

260 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
I put in for the post of inspector in charge of the helicopter unit. I didn't really fancy the post but the weeding out process included flights in the copter, including at night - which were fabulous, a series of tests at Cranwell, and being turned upside down under water in a helio mock-up during which one person panicked and kicked me i the mouth splitting my lip.

The final obstacle was the interview. Not much of a problem as we all (four of us who had got through) knew who had got the post. The norm of course so no particular resentment there. So I prepared some special answers.

When I was asked what changes I would make to the unit, which was running very well under the previous inspector who fell out with his immediate supervisor, I said:

'For the first two months I will do absolutely nothing. I will collect information and monitor working practices. I will discuss helio operations with those who we've worked with, from supervisors to the officer on the ground, and ask their opinions. I will spend the next month working with the team (I couln't avoid some jargon) and then work out what, if any, modifications we can make. I will also look at on-costs.'

The pair interviewing me - the super was one of the most obnoxious I've worked with - were completely thrown. They didn't even have a follow up question, for which I had, rather uselessly, prepared some equally non-PC, or at least inspector, type answers. I gave them a smile. It went quiet and then moved on to other matters. The interview never really flowed if you know what I mean.

Had I wanted the post I would have come up with the ideas of major modifications to the systems, new desks, forms, probably painting the airfield blue, that sort of thing.

I got a pull from my superintendent for treating it as a bit of a joke but I did defend my answer strongly. I was in communications at the time and obviously worked quite closely with the helio and the inspector they kicked out ran a very tight unit. He used to phone after any operation and ask how it went. He would also speak with the controller who was on the incident. No wonder he was removed.
Haha - I'm sure one day it will be considered 'on message' and 'progressive thinking' as soon as it's introduced into a social sciences management degree curriculum... smile

Have the cuts affected HQ senior staffing levels...no point having a policy unit or wigwam think tank if there are ever decreasing resources to play with...?

Elroy Blue

8,689 posts

193 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Mojocvh said:
They are already decimating the armed forces cut by cut by cut, at least you have a union to fight your case.

Good Luck.
A 'Union'. rofl

I assume you mean the Police Federation. They are about as much use as a chocolate tea cosy. Although they gave built themselves a very nice HQ out of our subscriptions. Ask any Officer their views of 'The Fed' and 99 out of 100 will say useless. The other one will be a Fed Rep.

Derek Smith

45,677 posts

249 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
On a lighter note:

In the more laid back days of the early 80s my force's training department started 'training for demand' where officers had to state what courses they would find useful. So I wrote the attached which was published in the international magazine, Police Review. I got a pull from my chief inspector, suggesting it brought the force into disrepute. However, the CC read it and his secretary phoned me to tell me so. This despite the fact that I used my wife's name.

To show how long ago this is, the article was illustrated with a cartoon showing a police officer being tattooed with swastickas and him asking the chap: Are you sure these are a symtom of German measels?

Hope you like it. It was written 30 years ago so it isn't stylish.



EARLY TERMINATION

Innovative training theories can be extremely useful. One which my force has followed, 'Training for Demand', dictates that we should supply only those courses that the students themselves want to attend. Its logic is hard to contradict.

A questionnaire sent to all ranks found that the 'Rapid Promotion' course just beat 'How to Pass Promotion Examinations' into second place. A strong third was 'How to Get Invited to Join the Right Lodge', but 'Early Termination' proved to be the most heavily subscribed for those with more than 20 years' service in the police.

A dramatic title, admittedly, but the course is designed for those officers who have over 21 years' pensionable service and wish to retire on medical grounds. They benefit by being able to draw their full index-linked pension without having to put in the usual minimum of 25 years. This is a growing trend in my force, especially since the less physi¬cally demanding jobs inside have been taken by the quick and the civilian. It is not a development encouraged by ACPO ranks.

Having notched up the appropriate years, I was asked to prepare the course for those who remain fit and active, despite years of shift work. Designed for a nominal five days, the Monday of the course is given over to one day's sick leave. This enables those unfamiliar with the necessary paperwork to get used to it, while the rest would not be obliged to replan their week.

Tuesday starts with an ice-breaker, where each student fills in a chart under the section 'illnesses I have known'. They write down as many symptoms of those ailments as they can in 30 minutes and then split into groups to decide how easy it is to fake them. A plenary session summarises the illnesses voted most common and easiest to assume.

The results can be depressingly familiar, with backache being the most popular by far, although the charts showed an occasional experiment with the spelling of sciatica. The popularity of back-related illnesses means that students sometimes refuse to stick their charts on the wall, complaining that their 'back will go out'.

The afternoon is a light-hearted affair, with the class acting out as many of the symptoms as they can, although we try to discourage attempts at the more antisocial illnesses. We had an encouraging start to the first course when one of the students, in a brave attempt to mimic the students, in an attempting to mimic the
symptoms of spontaneous combustion, set his chair alight. The resulting burns led to his retirement as soon as personnel felt it was safe to approach him.

Wednesday starts with a visiting speak¬er giving a talk entitled 'You Have Got To Be First'. He recounts his own history of being the first, and so far only, PC to be retired unfit on the grounds of stress. After his success, the force surgeon was so swamped with applications from officers complaining of similar symptoms he was unable to cope and he too put in for early retirement, claiming mental collapse through the pressure of overwork.

The personnel officer, in a move bordering on the genius, deleted stress from the medical dictionary held at headquarters, thus allowing it to join smallpox as the only disease history has been able to eradicate. Thwarted, the force surgeon became extremely bitter and has proved a difficult obstacle for the aspiring retiree.

Wednesday afternoon is given over to laying myths. For some, their cherished ideas have been used before and the force has its own effective treatments. Put simply, if you are a sergeant complaining of agoraphobia, before long you will become the divisional custody officer.

Those who are trying, for whatever reason, to use homosexuality as their method of escape are referred to Rapid Promotion, our sister course. Anyone wishing to supplement a mental breakdown with a bit of shoplifting or violence are warned about the tremendous amount of evidence required by the Crown Prosecution Service before they will even accept a file, let alone prosecute. One may well feel aggrieved when, after burning down Guildford, one is obliged to accept a caution and have to report for early turn the next day.

We have as another guest speaker an ex-sergeant who describes how he decided to suffer from 'Custody Officer's Twitch'. After developing the classic symptoms, such as refusing every charge regardless of evidence and terminating all interviews after 11 minutes, he was sent for a course to headquarters.

Whilst on this course — Rapid Promotion — he decided to move house. He managed to sell his own, but the one he intended to buy fell through, so he asked to be allocated a police house. He was retired on the spot. They had sold all the housing stock to pay for the printing of the cover of the annual report. The moral is: effective research can save a lot of effort.

We have a jolly time on Thursday morning visiting local mental hospitals. Our driver is the PC who complained so publicly that he was demoralised and frustrated over the way the CPS dropped cases. He claims that their lack of professionalism and the resulting loss of job satisfaction means he has difficulty concentrating. He also complains of headaches and a particularly troublesome nightmare in which Dr Crippen is bound over to be of good behaviour. When examined by a leading psychiatrist, our PC was declared sane and his reactions described as 'understandable'.

At the hospitals we learn symptoms and visiting times, and have happy reunions with graduates of previous courses. A pub lunch helps get in some practice for those trying to escape through alcoholism, but raises the sticky question that while it might appear to be the easiest, and indeed happiest, route to an early retirement, there is a danger that dedication might be lost just when success is nearest. It is an unfortunate fact of life that police work is at its most attractive when viewed through a beer soaked haze.

At this stage on a recent course one sergeant had a Glenfiddich-induced brainwave. On returning to HQ, he stripped naked and streaked through reception just as a chief inspector was showing a group of magistrates around. Panic was the order of the day for all but the quick thinking chief inspector who tore off his clothes and chased after the sergeant, shouting 'I love you'.

Unfortunately, his speed of mind was not matched by that of his feet and he failed to catch the, by now, rapidly accelerating sergeant. The chief inspector was retired within two days, and the sergeant disciplined in a slightly shorter time. It is one of my deepest regrets that the chief inspector refuses to be a guest speaker.

The afternoon is an intellectually stimulating time, with the students divided into groups and issued with a number of case studies which have to be rated out of 10 for their viability. To make it easier I give them one that rates the maximum (the high ranking officer who helped organise a number of armed robberies in London) and also one that rates zero (the tragic case of the lad who claimed to have contracted Aids — he is still waiting for someone to handle his case papers.)

The final day is started by a warning. We have a PC who describes what happened when he refused to arrest anyone, saying that it was all a waste of time. He declined to issue any tickets, or even report minor offences. Within days he was posted as a member of the Policy Making Team.

Despite this failure, a graduate of a previous course tried a similar method, reporting every offence he came across. No offence was too petty, no legislation too antiquated. No excuse swayed him from his purpose, no plea for clemency found understanding or a forgiving heart. To this PC there was just black and white. Career Planning proved they were equal to the challenge, and posted him to Discipline and Complaints.

Friday afternoon is unsettled at the moment. On the last course it was given over to acting out the symptoms of schizophrenia and similar mental illnesses. The students went around banging their heads against walls and arguing with imaginary people. Things went tragically wrong when they became mixed up with the Force Finance Committee, which resulted in disciplinary action being taken against me for lack of supervision. My defence that we would probably be able to find a use for the new helicopter given enough time was ridiculed.

So if anyone has any ideas on how the course may be completed, please let my training branch know. Don't ask for me as I will soon be pensioned off. You see, I have this plan, and as soon as I find a publisher for my book, Satanic Verses — The Sequel, I expect to be retired at once. Perhaps I'll be able to supplement my index-linked pension with the occasional stint as a guest speaker.

Elroy Blue

8,689 posts

193 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
A good comment on the Inspector Gadget blog:

"Our existing system of traditional policing, admired and copied throughout the world, is to be deliberately driven to failure by swingeing unsustainable cuts.

Its replacement? Profit-driven ‘policing’ by poorly-trained cheap staff and a massive percentage of profit taken from public funds by giant corporate conglomerates.

This government is utterly morally bankrupt. I am ashamed to have voted for them. Never again.

Has privatisation of water, gas, electricity, or defence construction ever improved service or reduced bills? Or has it meant multinational companies profiteering from essential public services?

How could police services possibly be improved by the private sector requirement for profits?

This is a total disgrace. It is corrupt beyond belief.

How many ex-ACPO snouts will be in the directorship troughs come this disastrous revolution I wonder?"