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TooLateForAName

Original Poster:

2,608 posts

72 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/02/police-pr...

TheGuardian said:
Private companies could take responsibility for investigating crimes, patrolling neighbourhoods and even detaining suspects under a radical privatisation plan being put forward by two of the largest police forces in the country.

West Midlands and Surrey have invited bids from G4S and other major security companies on behalf of all forces across England and Wales to take over the delivery of a wide range of services previously carried out by the police.

The contract is the largest on police privatisation so far, with a potential value of £1.5bn over seven years, rising to a possible £3.5bn depending on how many other forces get involved.

This scale dwarfs the recent £200m contract between Lincolnshire police and G4S, under which half the force's civilian staff are to join the private security company, which will also build and run a police station for the first time.

The home secretary, Theresa May, who has imposed a 20% cut in Whitehall grants on forces, has said frontline policing can be protected by using the private sector to transform services provided to the public, but this is the first clear indication of what that will mean in practice. May said on Thursday that she hoped the "business partnership" programme would be in place next spring.

A 26-page "commercial in confidence" contract note seen by the Guardian has been sent to potential bidders to run all services that "can be legally delegated to the private sector". They do not include those that involve the power of arrest and the other duties of a sworn constable.

Companies who have applied through the Bluelight emergency services e-tendering website have been invited to a "bidders' conference" on 14 March, with an anticipated contract start date of next February.

The timetable for the programme means it will be subject to final sign-off by the first police and crime commissioner for the West Midlands after their election in November. The existing police authority only gave the go-ahead for the tendering stage last month after a "robust and forthright discussion" which ended with a rare 11-5 split vote.

The joint West Midlands/Surrey "transformation" programme, which has strong backing from the Home Office, looks set to completely redraw the accepted boundaries between public and private and the definition of frontline and back-office policing.

The programme has the potential to become the main vehicle for outsourcing police services in England and Wales. It has been pioneered by the West Midlands chief constable, Chris Sims, and Mark Rowley, who has just moved to the Metropolitan police from the post of Surrey chief constable. The pair lead on these matters for the Association of Chief Police Officers.

The breathtaking list of policing activities up for grabs includes investigating crimes, detaining suspects, developing cases, responding to and investigating incidents, supporting victims and witnesses, managing high-risk individuals, patrolling neighbourhoods, managing intelligence, managing engagement with the public, as well as more traditional back-office functions, such as managing forensics, providing legal services, managing the vehicle fleet, finance and human resources.

A West Midlands police authority spokesman said: "Combining with the business sector is aimed at totally transforming the way the force currently does business – improving the service provided to the public.

"The areas of service listed in this notice are deliberately broad to allow the force to explore the skills, expertise and solutions a partnership could bring." He said not all the activities listed would necessarily be included in the final scope of the contract, but if the force added other activities later a "new and costly procurement exercise" would be needed.

The contract notice does state that "bidders should note that not all these activities will necessarily be included in the final scope, and that each police force will select some activities from these areas where they see the best opportunities for transformation". But the police clearly want to test whether it is possible for new areas of policing to be provided by private companies.

The contract is being offered in two lots, one covering custody services and the second all other services. It envisages that only one company will be awarded the main contract, although a second may run custody services separately.

The West Midlands police are already planning to cut 2,764 police jobs over the next three years and this privatisation programme is not designed to meet the immediate budget gaps. The savings are expected to show after 2014.

Ben Priestley, Unison's national office for police and justice, which covers many police civilian staff, said it was alarmed by the programme: "Bringing the private sector into policing is a dangerous experiment with local safety and taxpayers' money," he said. "We are urging police authorities not to fall into the trap of thinking the private sector is the answer to the coalition's cuts. The fact that the Home Office is refusing to publish its business case – even under FOI [the Freedom of Information Act] – speaks for itself.

"Privatisation means that the police will be less accountable to the public. And people will no longer be able to go to the Independent Police Complaints Commission if they have a problem. When a critical incident happens, a force's ability to respond will be severely compromised. The only winners are private companies and shareholders who make profits at the expense of local services."

A number of other forces, including Cleveland, Avon and Somerset, and Cheshire, have been exploring the services that might be offered to the private sector, albeit on a smaller scale.

Cleveland police have a 10-year contract with IT firm Steria to provide call handling, front desk staffing, and aspects of the criminal justice system on top of computer services, finance and training. Reliance security runs Cleveland's custody suites.

Avon and Somerset had a contract with IBM, called South West One, which suffered problems in its first three years. Some services are to be taken back in-house. Cheshire has a more traditional contract with Capgemini to provide finance, facilities and fleet management.

There is not expected to be any shortage of bidders. When Lincolnshire put its then groundbreaking contract out to tender last March, 12 companies responded with submissions.
Ooooohhhh Feck!

ShayneJ

1,058 posts

67 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Ah the UK's own TSA wonderful.

So what "powers" will these tarted up security guards have?
And by who's authority will they be granted?
Will they be under oath like a "real" police officer?

I for one Will Not recognise them.

I have worked with the police and have respect for them
and the job they do but this is laughable.

Edited by ShayneJ on Friday 2nd March 20:48

maix27

1,068 posts

84 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
This is just mental...

At least Thatcher knew she needed the police at least.

These bds are going to take this country to pieces. They'll privatise everything and we'll be stuck with the bills years down the line.

Absolutely dumbfounded by this.

Getragdogleg

4,641 posts

71 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Great, so all the self important tossers with power complexes will be given power to abuse.


EDLT

14,730 posts

94 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
It sounds more like privatisation of PCSOs, rather than the real police. Isn't a lot of CSI private already, that would be "investigating" wouldn't it?
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jbi

8,354 posts

92 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
EDLT said:
It sounds more like privatisation of PCSOs, rather than the real police. Isn't a lot of CSI private already, that would be "investigating" wouldn't it?
why do we even have these in the first place... utter waste of money

NismoGT

1,631 posts

78 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Oh Great! The new fking Gestapo!

ShayneJ

1,058 posts

67 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Don't worry the peasant sheeple will just grumble a bit then
do as their told as always.


Just what is it going to take for the people to "remove" the entire
self serving arrogant political class and rebuild this country
as a true democracy and tell the Banks where to stick their fiat
debt slave currency whilst their at it.



Edited by ShayneJ on Friday 2nd March 21:18

thinfourth2

30,848 posts

92 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all

I didn't vote for this current shower of st

Getragdogleg

4,641 posts

71 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Just because the front men change it does not mean the policy making little grey men change too.


Crafty_

8,230 posts

88 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
EDLT said:
It sounds more like privatisation of PCSOs, rather than the real police. Isn't a lot of CSI private already, that would be "investigating" wouldn't it?
Not really PCSOs, more like its the civvies that forces use in all sorts of positions, quite a few are ex officers, so if they work for a force or a external company doesn't really matter does it ?

ShayneJ

1,058 posts

67 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
thinfourth2 said:

I didn't vote for this current shower of st
HaHa you don't realise it do sent matter WHO you vote for it's meaningless

they ALL serve the same corporate interests.

Wake up.

ShayneJ

1,058 posts

67 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Crafty_ said:
Not really PCSOs, more like its the civvies that forces use in all sorts of positions, quite a few are ex officers, so if they work for a force or a external company doesn't really matter does it ?
What are you mad of course it matters if someone came up to you in the street and started
barking orders what would you do if..

1. the person is a police officer
2. someone in a BnQ uniform
3. someone in a G4S plastic police uniform

answer 2 and 3 are in effect the same thing NOT the police there is a distinct difference
if you cannot understand that then i feel sorry for you!

The police are there because WE in effect put them there to serve the public good independent
from politics and influence outside of the LAW. (i know this has been eroded over the years
but the principle is still there)

EVERYONE else is just an employee under the direction of corporate control
they cannot by definition be independent they are a private army all that's missing are the firearms.

Crafty_

8,230 posts

88 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
But they already do, specials are used for routine enquiries, they aren't even paid.

Civvies are already working in police forces, the only thing changing here is their employer.

They will not be involved in policing duties, read the article:

TFA said:
The breathtaking list of policing activities up for grabs includes investigating crimes, detaining suspects, developing cases, responding to and investigating incidents, supporting victims and witnesses, managing high-risk individuals, patrolling neighbourhoods, managing intelligence, managing engagement with the public, as well as more traditional back-office functions, such as managing forensics, providing legal services, managing the vehicle fleet, finance and human resources.
Not restoring/keeping public order, nicking criminals etc.

Edited by Crafty_ on Friday 2nd March 21:40

Chicken Chaser

3,935 posts

112 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Its nothing new, as mentioned some of the other forces have already been working with large amounts of private sector staff running back offices, custody etc. Unfortunately its not working and when it comes to strike time, bingo! The whole service shuts down. All except for the police of course, who are waiting patiently listening to the radio which is staffed by a private sector worker (who is out on the picket line).


johnfm

11,044 posts

138 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Oh, it was in the Guardian.

It must all be true. They would never publish anything to inflame any anti Government sentiment.

And fancy the cheek of government suggesting that civilian staffed jobs be done cheaper..


ShayneJ

1,058 posts

67 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Crafty_ said:
But they already do, specials are used for routine enquiries, they aren't even paid.

Civvies are already working in police forces, the only thing changing here is their employer.

They will not be involved in policing duties, read the article:

TFA said:
The breathtaking list of policing activities up for grabs includes investigating crimes, detaining suspects, developing cases, responding to and investigating incidents, supporting victims and witnesses, managing high-risk individuals, patrolling neighbourhoods, managing intelligence, managing engagement with the public, as well as more traditional back-office functions, such as managing forensics, providing legal services, managing the vehicle fleet, finance and human resources.
Not restoring/keeping public order, nicking criminals etc.
err. so the bold bits dont count then?

johnfm

11,044 posts

138 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
ShayneJ said:
Crafty_ said:
But they already do, specials are used for routine enquiries, they aren't even paid.

Civvies are already working in police forces, the only thing changing here is their employer.

They will not be involved in policing duties, read the article:

TFA said:
The breathtaking list of policing activities up for grabs includes investigating crimes, detaining suspects, developing cases, responding to and investigating incidents, supporting victims and witnesses, managing high-risk individuals, patrolling neighbourhoods, managing intelligence, managing engagement with the public, as well as more traditional back-office functions, such as managing forensics, providing legal services, managing the vehicle fleet, finance and human resources.
Not restoring/keeping public order, nicking criminals etc.
err. so the bold bits dont count then?
Did you not bother reading this bit...


A 26-page "commercial in confidence" contract note seen by the Guardian has been sent to potential bidders to run all services that "can be legally delegated to the private sector". They do not include those that involve the power of arrest and the other duties of a sworn constable.

Just more Guardian st stirring to pander to the CIF brigade.

Crafty_

8,230 posts

88 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
Not really, these people will not be in the front line and will not by standing shoulder to shoulder with officers as was suggested further up the post.
This is partly to try and relieve officers of non front line tasks, just like the PCSOs.

Anyway, my point is that civvies are already doing this work, it is not a new idea.

ShayneJ

1,058 posts

67 months

[news] 
Friday 2nd March 2012 quote quote all
johnfm said:
ShayneJ said:
Crafty_ said:
But they already do, specials are used for routine enquiries, they aren't even paid.

Civvies are already working in police forces, the only thing changing here is their employer.

They will not be involved in policing duties, read the article:

TFA said:
The breathtaking list of policing activities up for grabs includes investigating crimes, detaining suspects, developing cases, responding to and investigating incidents, supporting victims and witnesses, managing high-risk individuals, patrolling neighbourhoods, managing intelligence, managing engagement with the public, as well as more traditional back-office functions, such as managing forensics, providing legal services, managing the vehicle fleet, finance and human resources.
Not restoring/keeping public order, nicking criminals etc.
err. so the bold bits don,t count then?
Did you not bother reading this bit...


A 26-page "commercial in confidence" contract note seen by the Guardian has been sent to potential bidders to run all services that "can be legally delegated to the private sector". They do not include those that involve the power of arrest and the other duties of a sworn constable.

Just more Guardian st stirring to pander to the CIF brigade.
Actually no i had not apology's

But i also don't believe they will stick to that money talks and rent a cop will cost
less than a sworn officer and it will be just a matter of time before duties get transferred
i have 0 faith in the home office.


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