Catholic church oppose gay marriage

Catholic church oppose gay marriage

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Discussion

Marf

22,907 posts

240 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
TheHeretic said:
No-one has an issue with the church not allowing gay marriage, it is their little club.
I'm not sure the gay people who consider themselves catholic would agree.

Mr_B

10,480 posts

242 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
The sooner people just ignore these idiots and don't bother to hold up the stupid views as important, the better for everyone.
Far too much respect is given to these old fools, for too long they've had their say and treated like they are the moral standard by which everyone should live. Their press releases should be given no more priority on the BBC than that of the Westboro Baptist Church of Nutters

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

254 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Marf said:
I'm not sure the gay people who consider themselves catholic would agree.
Agree entirely, but catholic absurdity is not a new thing. It is a tenet of the faith, (says so in the special book), so of they choose to join that band, it will hardly be a surprise. It's wrong, but that is the way it is.

Oddly enough, if this 'cleric' said this about inter-racial marriage, or similar, then there would be hell on.

Eric Mc

121,774 posts

264 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
TheHeretic said:
Eric Mc said:
Are there Catholic Bishops in teh House of Lords - or are they banned?
The Lords Spiritual. 26 of them sit in the house of Lords. No RC bishops though.
However...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cam...

Edited by TheHeretic on Sunday 4th March 13:54
I thought so. Maybe they should start an anti-discrimination cammpaign.

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

254 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
I thought so. Maybe they should start an anti-discrimination cammpaign.
Maybe they should, and then we'd end up with Muslim, CofE, RC, and so on all having an unelected say on British political matters. Personally, I think the 26 should be kicked out.

Ari

Original Poster:

19,328 posts

214 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
cymtriks said:
What a silly statement.

When have they ever said that groping a choir boy is OK?

Marriage is intended, by their rules which perfectly reasonably apply to marriages performed in their churches, to be between men and women.

Assuming that you don't have a problem with your freedom of speech, and you doing what you want on your own property, why do you have a problem with him saying he doesn't want gays getting married in his church?
When the Catholic Church tried to cover it up is when.

And they're not just saying that they don't want gays getting married in their church, they're trying (as ever) to foist their ideals on the whole of the UK and state that the UK prime minister is wrong.

Once they have their own house in order, then their opinion might just carry a little validity...

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
There's a surprise?
This.

Religion and realism rarely mix, with hypocrisy thrown in just for good measure.

Stuart70

3,910 posts

182 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Marf said:
I'm not sure the gay people who consider themselves catholic would agree.
This is a key point. As someone who is not catholic and not gay; the point comes down to one of liberty and liberalism

Gay couples have a right to be together and recognised as being such legally. Strange cliques like churches have a right to choose their rules.

The point of intersection causes the problem.

I have to be honest and say I am pro gay (whatever that means) and anti religion, particularly where it sets rules for others to follow.

Not sure how religion works: because I happen to be brought up in Britain in a particular household then God is Christian; but if born into a different household or geography the odds are that I could have a different god or gods - feels a bit like supporting football team to me. Might be fun, but not sure that it is a sound logical basis for determining the "rule set" by which you live your life?!

My aim would be to see the churches and religions disappear through irrelevance and desuetude. Sadly I don't think that will be in my lifetime...

Ho hum

Eric Mc

121,774 posts

264 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
TheHeretic said:
Eric Mc said:
I thought so. Maybe they should start an anti-discrimination cammpaign.
Maybe they should, and then we'd end up with Muslim, CofE, RC, and so on all having an unelected say on British political matters. Personally, I think the 26 should be kicked out.
Any clerics should only be in the House of Lords under the same crieria as non-clerics. They shouldn't be there JUST because they are clerics.

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

254 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Any clerics should only be in the House of Lords under the same crieria as non-clerics. They shouldn't be there JUST because they are clerics.
Absolutely agree.

Marf

22,907 posts

240 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
TheHeretic said:
Eric Mc said:
I thought so. Maybe they should start an anti-discrimination cammpaign.
Maybe they should, and then we'd end up with Muslim, CofE, RC, and so on all having an unelected say on British political matters. Personally, I think the 26 should be kicked out.
Any clerics should only be in the House of Lords under the same crieria as non-clerics. They shouldn't be there JUST because they are clerics.
I'd go further and say we need a secular, elected house of lords, rather than an unelected house of lords filled with god botherers who are there solely because they happen to be those who bother god on behalf of their flock.

Marf

22,907 posts

240 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Guam said:
Marf said:
I'm not sure the gay people who consider themselves catholic would agree.
Can that even be the case in Catholocism though, with any club their rules are their rules.
For adult converts I guess it depends on whether or not you feel that you need the OK of the official body of a religion to consider yourself part of it.

For those born and raised into catholicism, confirmed, etc. who then grow up, realise they are gay, does that automatically make them not catholic?

Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Guam said:
Can that even be the case in Catholocism though, with any club their rules are their rules.
Frankly one could make ALL marriages have to be undertaken at the registry office if Legal certification is required.
Stop sending the Registrar to churches if they wish to discriminate.
That would seem fair I reckon smile
Religions have special exemptions. It is illegal to discriminate against them: sauce for the goose.

They have tax exemptions as well: you don't want to play by accepted norms then it will cost you.

They are allowed to run schools: if your conduct is offensive and discriminatory then you should not be allowed near to educational establishments (nor children come to that, but that's another matter).

Further, police are banned from joining, for instance, far right political parties. Perhaps they should be banned from joining nutty religions.

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

254 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
There was discussion somewhere about churches that involve themselves in politics should not be exempt from taxes.

PS, The Vatican has been ordered to start paying Taxes in Italy.

Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
TheHeretic said:
PS, The Vatican has been ordered to start paying Taxes in Italy.
They used to do before some president or other decided to buy some votes.

Eric Mc

121,774 posts

264 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Marf said:
Eric Mc said:
TheHeretic said:
Eric Mc said:
I thought so. Maybe they should start an anti-discrimination cammpaign.
Maybe they should, and then we'd end up with Muslim, CofE, RC, and so on all having an unelected say on British political matters. Personally, I think the 26 should be kicked out.
Any clerics should only be in the House of Lords under the same crieria as non-clerics. They shouldn't be there JUST because they are clerics.
I'd go further and say we need a secular, elected house of lords, rather than an unelected house of lords filled with god botherers who are there solely because they happen to be those who bother god on behalf of their flock.
That's a disfferent discussion. Whilst we have the current set up (which I actually think is a good compromise) no religious people should be in there UNLESS they have got access through the same channels as everyone else. Their position in the Church of England should not give them any sort of automatic access.

Marf

22,907 posts

240 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Marf said:
Eric Mc said:
TheHeretic said:
Eric Mc said:
I thought so. Maybe they should start an anti-discrimination cammpaign.
Maybe they should, and then we'd end up with Muslim, CofE, RC, and so on all having an unelected say on British political matters. Personally, I think the 26 should be kicked out.
Any clerics should only be in the House of Lords under the same crieria as non-clerics. They shouldn't be there JUST because they are clerics.
I'd go further and say we need a secular, elected house of lords, rather than an unelected house of lords filled with god botherers who are there solely because they happen to be those who bother god on behalf of their flock.
That's a disfferent discussion. Whilst we have the current set up (which I actually think is a good compromise) no religious people should be in there UNLESS they have got access through the same channels as everyone else. Their position in the Church of England should not give them any sort of automatic access.
Agreed smile

TwigtheWonderkid

43,246 posts

149 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
The catholic church have been really helpful to me in my life. I just ensure that I take the opposite view to everything they say, and do the exact opposite of what they think one should do, and I find that by following that code, I live a good moral life.

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

245 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Forget the religious stuff. Does a committed heterosexual couple with children REALLY want a couple of gays to share exactly the same status?

Anyway, IMO "gay marriage" is obvious nonsense. Once you take away the natural biological parenthood why not let,
a) One bloke and two women all marry into a threesome?
b) Five gay blokes all get married together?
c) A little old lady marry her pet cat?

To my mind it is plain stupid to have laws which permit gay marriage yet send people to prison for bigamy, especially since multi-partner relationships are permitted so long as you DON'T get married.

TheHeretic

73,668 posts

254 months

Sunday 4th March 2012
quotequote all
Ozzie Osmond said:
Forget the religious stuff. Does a committed heterosexual couple with children REALLY want a couple of gays to share exactly the same status?

Anyway, IMO "gay marriage" is obvious nonsense. Once you take away the natural biological parenthood why not let,
a) One bloke and two women all marry into a threesome?
b) Five gay blokes all get married together?
c) A little old lady marry her pet cat?

To my mind it is plain stupid to have laws which permit gay marriage yet send people to prison for bigamy, especially since multi-partner relationships are permitted so long as you DON'T get married.
What does children have to do with it? They will be able to adopt married or not. Moot point.
The rest of your post is an absurdity. I think you need to read up what the issue is actually about, rather than what you think it is about. Next of kin, rights as the next of kin, and all the rights that a married couple would have. It has nothing to do with children.