Many children killed in another ski trip coach crash

[lazyitus]

Just reading about the agonising wait for the parents, not knowing which kids had died.

Utterly utterly awful thing for all involved. As a parent myself, I cannot comprehend the nightmare they are now living in but I imagine it is literally unbearable.

So sad.

[Aids]

Agreed

Best wishes to the surviviors and RIP to the deceased. Very sad!

[Otispunkmeyer]

peterperkins said:

Terrible tunnel design, coach drifts off course for whatever reason then you have a dead stop from speed into a totally imovable object!! Even those buckled in must have been subject to a huge G force. 60-0 mph in 5ft or whatever the crushed part measures.

Coaches only have lap belts as well dont they? bloody cut you in half!

[superlightr]

I always try to travel over the wings in an aircraft as a passenger or failing that the end tail section and with coaches have always moved to the middle or end.

I know I will be telling my children if they get a chance to sit in the middle seats of a coach -

[davepoth]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Coaches only have lap belts as well dont they? bloody cut you in half!

Three pointers these days, not as though it would make much difference in a crash like that.

[JonnyFive]

davepoth said:

Otispunkmeyer said:

Coaches only have lap belts as well dont they? bloody cut you in half!

Three pointers these days, not as though it would make much difference in a crash like that.

How recent is that? I last went on a coach in 2006 and they were lap belts.

[Puggit]

Theory that the driver was trying to start a DVD! Telegraph link

Find this one hard to believe as the 2nd driver was also apparently killed at the front of the coach.

[JonnyFive]

Puggit said:

Theory that the driver was trying to start a DVD! Telegraph link

Find this one hard to believe as the 2nd driver was also apparently killed at the front of the coach.

Doesn't the 2nd Driver sit next to the main driver, on the little fold down seat where the seats are? Or atleas thats where the 2nd Driver/Teacher sat when we were on school trips.

[Nickyboy]

JonnyFive said:

How recent is that? I last went on a coach in 2006 and they were lap belts.

They tend to be operator installed belts, new coaches from the factory have 3 pointers

Puggit said:

Theory that the driver was trying to start a DVD! Telegraph link

Find this one hard to believe as the 2nd driver was also apparently killed at the front of the coach.

I doubt that, the DVD players aren't anywhere near the reach of the driver and would be operated by someone like a stewardess or teacher.

Edited by Nickyboy on Thursday 15th March 21:12

[WhoseGeneration]

Many more children died in Africa on the same day. We don't know their names because it isn't reported.
Then, perhaps some children are worth more than other ones?

[Bing o]

WhoseGeneration said:

Many more children died in Africa on the same day. We don't know their names because it isn't reported.
Then, perhaps some children are worth more than other ones?

I'm not sure I saw as much wailing and crying on here when 19,000 japanese died in last years earthquake (statistically probable that more than 22 kids died) or when the Boxing Day tsunami hit (ditto).

[Munter]

Bing o said:

I'm not sure I saw as much wailing and crying on here when 19,000 japanese died in last years earthquake (statistically probable that more than 22 kids died) or when the Boxing Day tsunami hit (ditto).

This thread has yet to reach 3 full pages.

Japan = 79 pages.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Apache]

WhoseGeneration said:

Many more children died in Africa on the same day. We don't know their names because it isn't reported.
Then, perhaps some children are worth more than other ones?

Not really, children die every day in Africa, have done for decades, familiarity breeds contempt. 22 schoolkids getting wiped out in Europe is far less common, ergo newsworthy

[Bing o]

Munter said:

Bing o said:

I'm not sure I saw as much wailing and crying on here when 19,000 japanese died in last years earthquake (statistically probable that more than 22 kids died) or when the Boxing Day tsunami hit (ditto).

This thread has yet to reach 3 full pages.

Japan = 79 pages.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

And how much of that content was a few posters trying to outdo each other on nuclear reactor geek speak, vs comments over 'how terrible it must be for the families/kids who have been lost'. I was dealing with the fallout (so to speak) of the quake on our Tokyo office, so was paying attention to most of the thread as it was more up to date than some of the MSM.

[oyster]

Zod said:

As others have said, the Alps are full of tunnels with this design. Some have armco. Most don't. For there to be two drivers and for this to have happened is very odd.

So because other tunnels are designed equally badly makes this tunnel ok?

Even if it turns out the driver was distracted, it shouldn't lead to such an outcome. Even a collision with a big tree would have caused less trauma to the vehicle and its occupants.

[rsv gone!]

So nobody is allowed to show grief or sorrow at such news without first referencing every natural and unnatural disaster first?

The reason it is more newsworthy than such happenings 1000s of miles away is that most victims were children and it happened in Europe. I dare say, many have sent (or are sending) their kids on skiing trips. It has more relevance to people's lives. Selfish? Maybe.

[DonkeyApple]

Bing o said:

I'm not sure I saw as much wailing and crying on here when 19,000 japanese died in last years earthquake (statistically probable that more than 22 kids died) or when the Boxing Day tsunami hit (ditto).

Check the titles of the two threads you are referring to.

Also, have a word with whoever it was that stopped you from starting your own thread on the children of fkushima or the tsunami.

[DJRC]

oyster said:

Zod said:

As others have said, the Alps are full of tunnels with this design. Some have armco. Most don't. For there to be two drivers and for this to have happened is very odd.

So because other tunnels are designed equally badly makes this tunnel ok?

Even if it turns out the driver was distracted, it shouldn't lead to such an outcome. Even a collision with a big tree would have caused less trauma to the vehicle and its occupants.

Badly designed for what? Their design requirements were different.

You want to know what their biggest concern is when a coach or something crashes in a tunnel? Its not about saving the originator of the accident, its about saving the rest of the occupants in the tunnel.

Tunnels out here are complexes, rarely just a tunnel, often several, interlinked and for several klicks. There are access branches all over, entries, exits and "hard shoulder" areas where vehicles can be removed to or stop in and get out of the flow of traffic. That solid wall has actually done its job according to their original requirement, which was prevent the vehicle from causing accident contagion and therefore massively accelerating the potential damage. It lets space remain in the flow for others to get past and away.

These things are designed with mass flow in mind and worst case, not the single incident. Sorry, its not what you want to hear, but these chaps have too many memories of large scale tunnel accidents, fire and the massacres and panic that can happen.

Maybe the tunnel designs can be improved with modern crash structures, knowledge, engineering, etc...good luck on getting that redesign done on an operational tunnel complex.

[Degner]

It's interesting that here in the UK, where we have no mountains and barely any long tunnels, that there are so many experts on tunnel design.

[Digga]

Degner said:

It's interesting that here in the UK, where we have no mountains and barely any long tunnels, that there are so many experts on tunnel design.

I think you will find Phers to be, on average, more mobile than the rest of the population. We like driving you see, that was (originally) the opint of this bit of the internet.