Public sector national pay rates could be about to end

[Deva Link]

F i F said:

May I ask what happens with relocation allowances?

Reason I ask is because I encountered one couple whose whole career strategy seemed to be bouncing around the system moving to ever more expensive areas, staying for the qualifying period, then moving again.

What are their jobs? I've never heard of anything like that, although at very, very senior level the rules seem to made up as they go along.

Certainly in the Civil Service everyone above a fairly basic level is considered to be a "mobile" grade, and they have to go where they're sent, with very minimal compensation.

My last compamy used to take ownership of people's old houses if they were being relocated - we owned a whole bunch of them at one point!

[F i F]

Deva Link said:

What are their jobs? I've never heard of anything like that, although at very, very senior level the rules seem to made up as they go along.

Certainly in the Civil Service everyone above a fairly basic level is considered to be a "mobile" grade, and they have to go where they're sent, with very minimal compensation.

My last compamy used to take ownership of people's old houses if they were being relocated - we owned a whole bunch of them at one point!

As just mentioned, senior in what was then DSS, but not senior as in senior senior senior Civil Service. Managerial twonks I would have said. Of course it may have all been smoke and mirrors with an exaggeration factor thrown in for good measure, though I would say they came across as genuine no bs people in the non work environment I knew them.

Our own system for national moves described, 99% of cases it's just travel expenses for a while with some exceptions, international expat agreements is interesting and the basic tenet is that people generally want to return to their home country at some point, even if that is when they retire. :looks in mirror:

Therefore expats are allowed to keep their own residence in home country, which they must fully fund, but as there is also the rule that they cannot be expected to pay for two homes, therefore their expat home is funded, rent community tax and so on. If they wish to sell the old home, they can, but they are assisted in doing that, if they wish to rent it out, they can be assisted in that, and sometimes it's another ex-pat going the other way, so to speak. Only a few hubs where that is realistically possible.

As for salaries, again it's a rule that the salary in the new location should be a mixture of what their salary converts to in the new currency in a complicated "cost of living" formula combined with something that will give them a similar standard of lifestyle to their new peer group.

Anyway apologies to OP, so far off topic now I'll shut up.

[mph1977]

sawman said:

F i F said:

May I ask what happens with relocation allowances?


So is it still like this?

as an NHS worker for the last 24 years, with 5 significant location moves under my belt, I have only once received any form of relocation allowance this was in 1996 and it amounted to 6 months worth of mileage allowance for my new 60 mile each way commute, until I found a more local house. At the same time as this a pal of mine was recruited by Lotus and moved from the midlands, lotus paid for a complete house removal package - where the removers come in and pack everything for you.

I last moved about 12 months ago, and received no assistance - I looked at the policy about relocation but really it didnt amount to a huge amount and would have taken me an afternoon to apply for.

Maybe other pubic servants get a better deal

From what i've seen of the relocation packages in the NHS , the key winners are people who move sufficiently far for that trust to consider it an unreasonable commute AND own their own house ... it's primarily used for senior Managers and Consultants, not the majority of staff unless you are somewhere like the Scottish highlands where expansion of service relies on importing staff and where the local population is increasingly aging etc ...

for the ordinary worker it might pay towards removal costs ....

[voyds9]

I chose to work in an area of the country where my wage goes further, now they want to take that away.

Will we soon have areas of the country where the civil servants won't work

[Johnnytheboy]

As opposed to...?

[uknick]

The civil service (I can't comment on local government, NHS etc) used to have London pay scales and National scales as as well as location allowances. Then they had one pay scale, then they brought back in London scales, all within about 10 years. So this issue is not that new as each Department has been screwing with pay rates for years and years.

With regard to relocation costs. This is Civil Service department dependent. Ministry of Defence used to have excellent packages, and I know many people who have used the system to buy really big houses over the years. But over the last 5 years they have been severely cut back. My last Department, which includes Job Centres, just paid some travel costs for a limited time.

Finally, I wonder if this move has anything to do with privatization? Which is the Conservatives party's avowed intent. Not sure how, but I view any new government policy on civil service pay with extreme suspicion.

[Murph7355]

Johnnytheboy said:

I don't see an economic case for paying anyone more than necessary to get the right person for the job.

You don't see one because there isn't one.

sawman said:

The thing is that large parts of the public servant job market is national not local. If I had to choose between doing my job in newcastle for x or doing the same job in another area for x+10% I would be seriously looking at moving.

It pretty much costs the same to live in most parts of the country apart from london (which has always attracted a london weighting allowance - although quite how an extra 1500 quid per year makes london property more affordable is a mystery to me). In fact it costs me more to live in Newcastle than it did in shropshire, by a considerable margin...

IF it costs pretty much the same to live in a couple of areas, my broad assumption would be that the average (private sector) pay in those areas will be broadly the same. At least to the point where mass migration of the workforce doesn't happen.

My understanding of what is being proposed is that public sector pay should follow the same lines. And I don't really see why that is an issue (but then I don't see why unions or DM readers get a bee in their bonnet about 99% of the stuff they moan about).

It takes massive differentials to force mass migration of workforces. If anything, if it were going to happen I'm surprised it hasn't already - I'd rather earn x doing a govt job in Wales than get paid the same x for doing the same govt job in London.

[turbobloke]

Murph7355 said:

Johnnytheboy said:

I don't see an economic case for paying anyone more than necessary to get the right person for the job.

You don't see one because there isn't one.

[GrumpyV8]

uknick said:

The civil service (I can't comment on local government, NHS etc) used to have London pay scales and National scales as as well as location allowances. Then they had one pay scale, then they brought back in London scales, all within about 10 years. So this issue is not that new as each Department has been screwing with pay rates for years and years.

With regard to relocation costs. This is Civil Service department dependent. Ministry of Defence used to have excellent packages, and I know many people who have used the system to buy really big houses over the years. But over the last 5 years they have been severely cut back. My last Department, which includes Job Centres, just paid some travel costs for a limited time.

Finally, I wonder if this move has anything to do with privatization? Which is the Conservatives party's avowed intent. Not sure how, but I view any new government policy on civil service pay with extreme suspicion.

Maggie Thatcher started clamping down on the relocation packages for the majority of the Civil Service 30 years ago. I understand there is now very little assistance apart from help with excess fares where appropriate. However, as most departments seem to be shedding staff new recruitment may be negligible.