Cameron wants to privatise roads (again)

[VictorMeldrew]

So your wife has only just joined the private sector, and you've been public sector for all your working life? I see why you are feeling the pain.

It was overdue though.

[RichB]

Elroy Blue said:

VictorMeldrew said:

RichB said:

Elroy Blue said:

He sees the working man as an easy target..

Why? I haven't seen any policies aimed at penalising what you call "the working man" and trust me, I work...

I think he was using the term "working man" as a euphemism, like "working class". He means benefit scroungers obviously. This is a serious threat though, as despite not contributing to societies coffers they unfortunately still seem to have a say in how it works.

Jesus,
I can only hope you are not representative of the majority of people on this forum. For your information, I have NEVER claimed any benefit. While I am one who grew up on a northern council estate, I worked. I served in the Royal Navy. I am now a Police Officer. I have voted Conservative in every election since I was 18.

My wife lost her job 12 months ago (as an elderly care worker in Social Services) thanks to Cameron's policies. Did she immediately trot down the benefits office. NO!. She didn't claim a thing. She has started her own business providing the same care at a fraction of what she should charge, because she is dedicated to the people she looks after.

On the other hand, I'm one of those ordinary PAYE people who can't employ accountants to hide my earnings, nor am I one of the benefit underclass with no work ethic at all. So in Cameron's view, I'm fair game.

So take your pathetic prejudices elsewhere and understand that as an 'ordinary' working family, Cameron has hit us hard. Maybe I would be better off on the dole. I'll trot off and get my flat cap while I'm at it.

Crikey - you have a serious chip on your shoulder don't you! For what it's worth "VictorMedrew" did not suggest you were a scrounger but that you may have been referring them. I'm sure he can defend himself but you do seem very aggressive throughout this whole thread. Look back - up until now you failed to explain why you think working people have been hit by the Tories. You know Pistonheads - if you make accusations and don't back them up then expect some stick Now if you'll calm down a bit and listen to an alternative viewpoint I'll explain my stance.

[Elroy Blue]

RichB said:

rikey - you have a serious chip on your shoulder don't you! For what it's worth "VictorMedrew" did not suggest you were a scrounger but that you may have been referring them. I'm sure he can defend himself but you do seem very aggressive throughout this whole thread. Look back - up until now you failed to explain why you think working people have been hit by the Tories. You know Pistonheads - if you make accusations and don't back them up then expect some stick Now if you'll calm down a bit and listen to an alternative viewpoint I'll explain my stance.

Oh ok! I disagreed so I've got a chip on my shoulder!!

I'm a working person. I have been a working person all my life.

My wife is a working person. She has been a working person all her life.

We cannot afford accountants to hide our income.

We are not the feral underclass getting a 5.2% rise in income.

My Proffession has been subject to a vendetta by Cameron settling an old score. My pay and conditions have been hemmered.

My wife, providing a vital service to th elderly (not scroungers. The elderly. The majority of whom served and payed their dues.), lost her job. She is now trying to carry on providing that care at cost. She has never claimed any benefit after losing her job.

Our household income is down over £600 per month.

Is that clear enough.

[RichB]

Elroy Blue said:

For your information, I have NEVER claimed any benefit. While I am one who grew up on a northern council estate, I worked. I served in the Royal Navy. I am now a Police Officer. I have voted Conservative in every election since I was 18. My wife lost her job 12 months ago (as an elderly care worker in Social Services) thanks to Cameron's policies. Did she immediately trot down the benefits office. NO!. She didn't claim a thing. She has started her own business providing the same care at a fraction of what she should charge, because she is dedicated to the people she looks after. On the other hand, I'm one of those ordinary PAYE people who can't employ accountants etc.

So you wife lost her job, never a pleasant experience but st happens. I lost my job in 2003, took me a year to find another one so I empathise. Anyway it ended well because she's set up privately which means she can charge what she wants - or what the market will stand. Perhaps she's discovered that the service provided by public funds was over charged for or overly costly?

Anyway there is no question public service head-count had to come down. Brown & Co created public sector jobs like they were going out of fashion; in my area we even had adverts for Head of skateboarding skills It had to stop. As Liam Byrne put it - "there is no money!"

As a police officer I'm sure you applaud the idea of getting more police on the streets (where the public want them) as opposed to behind desks. In hospitals we need more nurses and matrons and less managers and administrators - all of which the Tories are trying to achieve but it's not easy and any job cuts in the public sector are seen (by the working man) as evil rather than beneficial. I for one applaud it. labour and I know you didn't vote labour) used the public sector as a way of reducing the unemployed figures. It's one tool to do that, not one I agree with but it works - create public sector jobs by the thousands so yo don't pay these people dole money but instead pay them to do something. Unfortunately they do not create wealth or value in the economy so I would rather have a slimmed down public sector and have business growing and creating jobs for people to do something which creates something.

In the last few days the government have announced plans to enable young people to get 95% mortgages on new build houses, good I say, this will benefit kids and industry creating jobs.

I wouldn't suggest Cameron has been a roaring success but then he's had his hands tied by Clegg and Co. and we've no way of knowing how much that has hindered (or helped?). But... even though I can see why you may be jaundiced I see no evidence of the Tories hitting the working man at all. And no, i don't live in a darkened box.

[RichB]

Elroy Blue said:

My Proffession has been subject to a vendetta by Cameron settling an old score. .

Ah so you do have a chip on your shoulder

Seriously though, you say your income is down and your wife is charging less for her service why is that the government's fault? Other than that there's nothing new in what you say and what's all that crap about vendettas and private accountants hiding income? Is that your impression of how people all live in the South?

p.s. I didn't accuse you of anything, that was VicMeldrew, so don't get agressive with me.

Edited by RichB on Wednesday 21st March 16:14

[Elroy Blue]

RichB said:

As a police officer I'm sure you applaud the idea of getting more police on the streets (where the public want them) as opposed to behind desks.

If you think that is what Cameron is achieving, then I'm afraid all you're displaying is a complete ignorance of what is happening to YOUR Police service.

RichB said:

Ah so you do have a chip on your shoulder

Seriously though, you say your income is down and your wife is charging less for her service why is that the government's fault?

Who else has butchered the Police budget?? (While providing billions in 'aid' and windfarms.

Who else cut services to the elderly (while increasing benefits to the workshy)

RichB said:

Other than that there's nothing new in what you say and what's all that crap about vendettas and private accountants hiding income? Is that your impression of how people all live in the South?

Firstly, what on earth has 'the south' got to do with anything. I was born in the north, I no longer live there. Is that your prejudice coming out again. Cameron was co-author of the Sheehey report. (Look it up). It was designed to turn the Police into security guards. He lost. He's returned to finish the job.

RichB said:

p.s. I didn't accuse you of anything, that was VicMeldrew, so don't get agressive with me.

Edited by RichB on Wednesday 21st March 16:14

If you consider somebody posting an alternative point of view 'aggresive', I suggest you stop being so dainty and sensitive.

[The Hitman]

VictorMeldrew said:

The Hitman said:

I agree, but the Government has made it so that if you did blockade fuel depots, you'll be arrested under homeland anti-terrorism laws.

Really, "the Government"; I thought those particular laws came in somewhat before the 2010 elections?

Believe it or not, we had a Government in place before 2010.

Do you want me to give you a history lesson? At the time these laws were brought in, Labour was in power....and? They are s and so are the Tories.

I already told you, I'm not left or right. I'm on the side of common sense, I'm sorry you aren't.

Edited by The Hitman on Wednesday 21st March 16:32

[RichB]

Elroy Blue said:

Stuff...

I have no desire to debate with someone who bears a grudge - it will lead nowhere. You have an entrenched view because your wife lost here job while you feel you are being personally got at by Cameron. It's understandable but not the best frame of mind for you to be lecturing me on alternative points of view is it?
Your income is down because your wife earns less (I assume a reduced police budget has not reduced you personal income), you are the one who spoke of private accountants, hiding wealth for tax limitation, vendettas - sounds like you've got some serious issues to sort out.

[F i F]

May I just point out that I was the first person on this thread to mention that Cameron came back with a vindictive bent to get his own back on the police for Sheehy.

I have no axe to grind, I am not the target of any of Cameron's antics with the job, except that the service I will get as a concerned citizen will deteriorate.

Don't pick on Elroy for simply saying how it is.

Sorry EB, you can stick up for yourself well enough, I know that, but it needed saying by an independent.

Don't let the bds grind you down, neither SMT nor those on here.

Some of us appreciate what the bib do with so little for so little. Rest of you would do well and see what you pay each week for your local force, and then think what that might buy you in the real world, a biro, a plastic ruler, and a chocolate bar probably.


Cue attempted comedic comments from tts about chocolate bobbies.

[RichB]

F i F said:

Some of us appreciate what the bib do with so little for so little. .

I fully appreciate what the police do and I trust I have not conveyed the opposite in my posts. However EB made some remarks about Cameron being against "the working man" and then took against anyone who disagreed with him. After explaining why he felt that way it's i) because Cameron has a personal vendetta against him and ii) because his wife lost her job in the public sector. No one has shown disrespect towards the police.

[Elroy Blue]

RichB said:

I fully appreciate what the police do and I trust I have not conveyed the opposite in my posts. However EB made some remarks about Cameron being against "the working man" and then took against anyone who disagreed with him. After explaining why he felt that way it's i) because Cameron has a personal vendetta against him and ii) because his wife lost her job in the public sector. No one has shown disrespect towards the police.

It never ceases to amaze me how a post can be so blantantly twisted.

By disagreeing with someone you state I 'took against' them . By the same definition, you have 'took against' me. How aggressive

You now say I stated that Cameron has a personal vendetta against me. Now where did I say that. Cameron is pursuing a vindictive campaign against the Police, which affects the service we can provide. (I notice you failed to answer my point about your complete lack of knowledge on what is happening to the Police)

I mentioned my wife because of the suggestion I was either on or a supporter of benefit claimants. She has never claimed a thing.

Cameron's policies have impacted on a huge number of people who work. At the same time benefit claimants (and I mean the workshy) have done well as have rich countries overseas and his father in laws windfarm interests.

[VictorMeldrew]

The Hitman said:

Believe it or not, we had a Government in place before 2010.

Do you want me to give you a history lesson? At the time these laws were brought in, Labour was in power....and? They are s and so are the Tories.

I already told you, I'm not left or right. I'm on the side of common sense, I'm sorry you aren't.

Why would my common sense be lacking just because I failed to grasp that when you referred the "the Government" you actually meant "the previous Government". A fairly vital distinction omitted in a [current] Government bashing thread wouldn't you think?

[VictorMeldrew]

Elroy Blue said:

I mentioned my wife because of the suggestion I was either on or a supporter of benefit claimants. She has never claimed a thing.

And I didn't claim or suggest any such thing, just for the record.

[RichB]

Elroy Blue said:

It never ceases to amaze me how a post can be so blatantly twisted.

Don’t be because it’s not.

Elroy Blue said:

You now say I stated that Cameron has a personal vendetta against me. Now where did I say that.

Here…

Elroy Blue said:

My Proffession has been subject to a vendetta by Cameron settling an old score. My pay and conditions have been hammered

Elroy Blue said:

Cameron is pursuing a vindictive campaign against the Police, which affects the service we can provide. (I notice you failed to answer my point about your complete lack of knowledge on what is happening to the Police)

Do you seriously expect me to have any knowledge of that? No thought not. Happy to discuss the working of the internal combustion engine though.

Elroy Blue said:

I mentioned my wife because of the suggestion I was either on or a supporter of benefit claimants. She has never claimed a thing.

Not me - you’re confused.

Elroy Blue said:

Cameron's policies have impacted on a huge number of people who work. At the same time benefit claimants (and I mean the workshy) have done well as have rich countries overseas and his father in laws windfarm interests.

Cameron’s policies have impacted on a huge number of people in public sector agreed. I can’t see how benefit claimants have benefited gained under the Tories. As for green energy investment conflicting with overseas aid that’s a different argument and the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[Elroy Blue]

RichB said:

ameron’s policies have impacted on a huge number of people in public sector agreed. I can’t see how benefit claimants have benefited gained under the Tories. As for green energy investment conflicting with overseas aid that’s a different argument and the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

It doesn't matter if you're public or private sector. PAYE earners have been disproportionately affected.

RichB said:

I can’t see how benefit claimants have benefited gained under the Tories

So you're unaware of the fact that Cameron increased benefit payments by over 5%

[VictorMeldrew]

and 37% of those on incapacity benefit interviewed have had their benefits stopped. That's a 100% reduction for them at least.

[RichB]

OK so you accept I didn't say you or your wife were benefit claimants, and I note you accept that you did use the expression 'vendetta', fine we're getting somewhere.

As for everyone on PAYE being worse off, what's you point? I pay as I earn, always have and I have no doubt I would be worse off under labour.

As for benefits, the Tories are trying to reduce the overall number of people claiming. A 5% increase to genuine recipients is fine by me. Disabled, real job-seekers what's the problem with that?

[Elroy Blue]

If you can show me where it states only genuine benefit claimants are receiving an increase I'll be happy to doff my cap.
The truth is the feral underclass are getting paid for doing nothing as usual. As you continue to argue black is white, I'll now leave you to it. I'm sure everybody else is getting a tad bored.

[vonuber]

Elroy Blue said:

I'm sure everybody else is getting a tad bored.

If you pinned a blue rosette on a corpse some people would vote for it (although it would probably do a better job). Personally I wouldn't be a copper for love nor money, you have a lot of respect from me for doing that job.

[RichB]

One's job has no relevance to a dabate on ecomnomics or politics... I have respect for police officers as I have already said. I will still argue that as a PAYE employee I am no worse off under the conservatives than I was under labour.