Campaign for veto of Bill on creationism in Tennessee
Discussion
hairykrishna said:
julian64 said:
I find the upsetting thing about watching that video, is the way the pro darwin people manage to tip the balance and pat themselves on the back for proving Darwin.
Only they didn't prove Darwin. The bit of the case that tipped the balance was them being able to prove that inteligent design was creationalism re-badged, and that had been rejected by the supreme court.
So in effect Darwin didn't win the day with the power of science. The lawyers won the day with a technicality linking it to a previous religious theory.
I came away having watched that trying to work out why the lawyers, or indeed anyone else thinks that is any sort of victory. It merely highlights the fact that there are some very very dumb people in the states
Did you watch the same video? The big issue is not if Darwinian evolution is 'correct' or not. It's that creationism is religion, not a scientific theory. I doubt the 'pro darwin' people would have any objection if it was a rival scientific theory being taught - that's one of the big differences between science and religion; conflicting views and debate are Only they didn't prove Darwin. The bit of the case that tipped the balance was them being able to prove that inteligent design was creationalism re-badged, and that had been rejected by the supreme court.
So in effect Darwin didn't win the day with the power of science. The lawyers won the day with a technicality linking it to a previous religious theory.
I came away having watched that trying to work out why the lawyers, or indeed anyone else thinks that is any sort of victory. It merely highlights the fact that there are some very very dumb people in the states
TheHeretic said:
These people are frightening.In their own way they will be as dangerous as militant Islamists.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2146719/An...
Thank goodness these people rewriting history for their own political and religious ends are all foreign. Not something that could happen in our enlightened times.
Go to the Culloden Moor memorial and listen to the war between the English and Scotland.
Thank goodness these people rewriting history for their own political and religious ends are all foreign. Not something that could happen in our enlightened times.
Go to the Culloden Moor memorial and listen to the war between the English and Scotland.
Derek Smith said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2146719/An...
Thank goodness these people rewriting history for their own political and religious ends are all foreign. Not something that could happen in our enlightened times.
Go to the Culloden Moor memorial and listen to the war between the English and Scotland.
What a joke.Thank goodness these people rewriting history for their own political and religious ends are all foreign. Not something that could happen in our enlightened times.
Go to the Culloden Moor memorial and listen to the war between the English and Scotland.
Saddle bum said:
TheHeretic said:
These people are frightening.In their own way they will be as dangerous as militant Islamists.
Oh my.It's easy to laugh at people who believe the earth is 6000 years old and that man walked with the dinosaurs but imagine being brought up surrounded by people with that mindset, including "science" teachers and even university professors. Then imagine that you've always been told that those who espouse Darwinistic evolution are not just people with a different opinion but are evil and godless. I'm glad I'm not Texan.
rohrl said:
It's easy to laugh at people who believe the earth is 6000 years old and that man walked with the dinosaurs but imagine being brought up surrounded by people with that mindset, including "science" teachers and even university professors. Then imagine that you've always been told that those who espouse Darwinistic evolution are not just people with a different opinion but are evil and godless. I'm glad I'm not Texan.
I suppose in a way they are right: we are godless. I don't think it is laughable so much as worrying. This is the most powerful country in the world and it looks as if it is being overrun by the nutters. Here they are, with devices that are en route to leaving the solar system, they've had their kin step onto the Moon and yet they are wallowing in superstition.
When I was a kid such statements that this group are making would have been ridiculed. They would have been laughed at. I was allowed to choose my religion, so ended up choosing none, and most, if not all, of my mates were similarly convinced. I had a Jewish girlfriend who was perpetuatly being told off for doing stuff on days when she shouldn't. Yet her and her brothers were not so much dismissive of the religion of their parents as understanding.
My school imported a new headmaster who was Welsh Chapel and, despite not being in any way religious, demanded that we had hymns and prayers every day and reinstated christian teachings in RI, replacing a polyglot. Everyone realised he was totally off his rocker.
I really thought it was the end of superstition and a victory for thought. But I thought wrong.
Perhpas it is a fashion. After all the birth of this new religious nuttery seems to have been a reaction to imported religions and their peculiar thinking. 'If those foreigners can say silly things, we can say stuff that is even stupider. And they do.
We need a new enlightenment.
Sooner or later we will come up with a way of rejuvination or curing cancer or stopping women having headaches, something really earth-shattering and these religious types will ban it because of some poorly worded sentance in their book of instructions.
Derek Smith said:
Sooner or later we will come up with a way of rejuvination or curing cancer or stopping women having headaches, something really earth-shattering and these religious types will ban it because of some poorly worded sentance in their book of instructions.
Done it already
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onan
eldar said:
The thing is that when you read it, it makes you think 'must not disobey God' rather than 'must not use contraception in rubber or chemical form'.
TheHeretic said:
The thing is that when you read it, it makes you think 'must not disobey God' rather than 'must not use contraception in rubber or chemical form'.
http://freespace.virgin.net/stephen.theobald/lyric...
rohrl said:
It's easy to laugh at people who believe the earth is 6000 years old and that man walked with the dinosaurs but imagine being brought up surrounded by people with that mindset, including "science" teachers and even university professors. Then imagine that you've always been told that those who espouse Darwinistic evolution are not just people with a different opinion but are evil and godless. I'm glad I'm not Texan.
I think that was Tennessee in the post. However, I have never met any Christian that thinks the Earth is only 6,000 years old. I am certain they are around but are very limited.Derek Smith said:
I don't think it is laughable so much as worrying. This is the most powerful country in the world and it looks as if it is being overrun by the nutters.
I find it worrying that you can hear about a few of these idiots and proclaim the whole nation is being "overrun".There was a huge issue in Texas not long ago, (as their textbooks are the ones that pretty much the rest of the country use), and their boards were attempting to do all sorts with the contents.
Anyway, I'm sure they are limited, but the fact remains that these people do seem to be remaining in these positions. See Dover, the Taxas books, the recent Tennessee issues, and so on.
Anyway, I'm sure they are limited, but the fact remains that these people do seem to be remaining in these positions. See Dover, the Taxas books, the recent Tennessee issues, and so on.
TheHeretic said:
There was a huge issue in Texas not long ago, (as their textbooks are the ones that pretty much the rest of the country use), and their boards were attempting to do all sorts with the contents.
Anyway, I'm sure they are limited, but the fact remains that these people do seem to be remaining in these positions. See Dover, the Taxas books, the recent Tennessee issues, and so on.
Not sure about the nation using only Texas textbooks; however, I would submit that the media attention makes the situation look far more common that it really is. I live here most days and have yet to personally meet one of these types. Anyway, I'm sure they are limited, but the fact remains that these people do seem to be remaining in these positions. See Dover, the Taxas books, the recent Tennessee issues, and so on.
Jimbeaux said:
Not sure about the nation using only Texas textbooks; however, I would submit that the media attention makes the situation look far more common that it really is. I live here most days and have yet to personally meet one of these types.
Yeah. You keep saying that, and yet there are continuous lawsuits, and school boards pushing for these things. As for Texas textbooks, 19 other states use Texas standard textbooks, from memory, presumably due to numbers.
http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/texas...
Edited by TheHeretic on Saturday 19th May 18:42
TheHeretic said:
Jimbeaux said:
Not sure about the nation using only Texas textbooks; however, I would submit that the media attention makes the situation look far more common that it really is. I live here most days and have yet to personally meet one of these types.
Yeah. You keep saying that, and yet there are continuous lawsuits, and school boards pushing for these things. As for Texas textbooks, 19 other states use Texas standard textbooks, from memory, presumably due to numbers.
http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/texas...
Edited by TheHeretic on Saturday 19th May 18:42
Jimbeaux said:
And I will keep saying that. Lawsuits, etc. get attention; the occurance of this remains small. 19 states? Oh OK, you said "Pretty much the rest of the country".
Yes Jim... Lawsuits. Not from individuals, or crazy churches, but school boards, and many of them there have been. If it was a nutter on a street corner, aim, there wouldn't be a problem. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation–evolut...
Dover, Kanas, Texas, and so on, (not to mention the original Scopes trial). These things are happening, whether you like it or not, and it is creeping into the UK. You can pick on individual words if you want, but you cannot deny the pressure that these creationists seem to be having. I have never met a scientologist, and yet I know they are out there. You not meeting any doesn't mean anything. As I said in either this thread or another, I was in the states for 5 years and I did meet them. Hell my nan is on the verge of being one.
So, Jim, you can put your head in the sand of you want.
TheHeretic said:
Jimbeaux said:
And I will keep saying that. Lawsuits, etc. get attention; the occurance of this remains small. 19 states? Oh OK, you said "Pretty much the rest of the country".
Yes Jim... Lawsuits. Not from individuals, or crazy churches, but school boards, and many of them there have been. If it was a nutter on a street corner, aim, there wouldn't be a problem. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation–evolut...
Dover, Kanas, Texas, and so on, (not to mention the original Scopes trial). These things are happening, whether you like it or not, and it is creeping into the UK. You can pick on individual words if you want, but you cannot deny the pressure that these creationists seem to be having. I have never met a scientologist, and yet I know they are out there. You not meeting any doesn't mean anything. As I said in either this thread or another, I was in the states for 5 years and I did meet them. Hell my nan is on the verge of being one.
So, Jim, you can put your head in the sand of you want.
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