BBC Breakfast News this morning. All about the Titanic.

[carmonk]

Ridiculous. Another British coming-together to celebrate tragedy, a nation of obsessive saccharine mourners. They interviewed some people on that absurd 'tribute' ship a few days ago. One screw-faced contribution was banging on about how she was going on the trip to 'pay her respects'. What does that even mean? She didn't know and I certainly don't. Behind her was a bloke dressed in period costume, laughing his head off and looking like a clown.

[Eric Mc]

She was probably a Leonardo de Caprio fan.

[carmonk]

Almost certainly.

[alfaman]

martin84 said:

small things you can look at and say 'if that was done differently it wouldn't of happened.

2 of those (wierd facts)

1/ rivets were down-spec'd to use cheaper metal than the original spec. Hull plates burst along the rivet seams - unlikely this would have happened with better rivets

2/ if the ship had rammed straight into the ice head-on..instead of taking avoiding action... Almost certain it would not have sunk.

[AndrewW-G]

alfaman said:

martin84 said:

small things you can look at and say 'if that was done differently it wouldn't of happened.

2 of those (wierd facts)

1/ rivets were down-spec'd to use cheaper metal than the original spec. Hull plates burst along the rivet seams - unlikely this would have happened with better rivets

2/ if the ship had rammed straight into the ice head-on..instead of taking avoiding action... Almost certain it would not have sunk.

3/ The lookout normally had binoculars, the key to the cupboard containing them, was in the pocket of a crew member who wasn't on board when they left port

[Mojocvh]

The casualties "had an immense impact on the world concept of ferry safety" and led to changes in safety regulations and liferaft design[14] much as the Titanic disaster did in 1912.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Estonia

http://www.estoniaferrydisaster.net/estonia/index....

[ooo000ooo]

alfaman said:

2 of those (wierd facts)

1/ rivets were down-spec'd to use cheaper metal than the original spec. Hull plates burst along the rivet seams - unlikely this would have happened with better rivets

On some program last week about it (titanic conspiracies i think) they analysed a number of the rivets recovered from the wreck and figured something like 3% of the 3 million rivets used were slightly sub standard, the rest were ok.

[BigBen]

Steameh said:

BigBen said:

Whilst that is undoubtedly true it had a few unique points, firstly it was said to be 'unsinkable' and secondly it was its maiden voyage. Thirdly there was quite a successful film about it a few years back which re-sparked interest.

Ben

Apparently according to a recent BBC article, it was never said to have been unsinkable before it actually sunk. It's something that has been perpetuated after it sank.

I did consider as I wrote it that it seemed unlikely but did not have time to check.

[Noger]

BigBen said:

Steameh said:

BigBen said:

Whilst that is undoubtedly true it had a few unique points, firstly it was said to be 'unsinkable' and secondly it was its maiden voyage. Thirdly there was quite a successful film about it a few years back which re-sparked interest.

Ben

Apparently according to a recent BBC article, it was never said to have been unsinkable before it actually sunk. It's something that has been perpetuated after it sank.

I did consider as I wrote it that it seemed unlikely but did not have time to check.

Having just been to the Titanic exhibition in Singapore, the "practically unsinkable" tag came from an article in Shipbuilder magazine in 1911.

[martin84]

AndrewW-G said:

alfaman said:

martin84 said:

small things you can look at and say 'if that was done differently it wouldn't of happened.

2 of those (wierd facts)

1/ rivets were down-spec'd to use cheaper metal than the original spec. Hull plates burst along the rivet seams - unlikely this would have happened with better rivets

2/ if the ship had rammed straight into the ice head-on..instead of taking avoiding action... Almost certain it would not have sunk.

3/ The lookout normally had binoculars, the key to the cupboard containing them, was in the pocket of a crew member who wasn't on board when they left port

4/ Titanic was going about twice the speed it should've done. Going slower it may have avoided the Iceberg.

[Ozzie Osmond]

This Titanic stuff I find weird.

I also find it weird and diametrically opposite that Liverpool can't get over the Hillsborough stadium disaster. In fact I think Liverpool doesn't want to get over the Hillsborough stadium disaster. A bit like the endless bleating in the Middle East about past difficulties.

Perhaps what's needed to clear the air is a 25 year celebration of the Hillsborough disaster in a couple of years time with guided tours, parties, souvenirs etc....

[martin84]

Ozzie Osmond said:

This Titanic stuff I find weird.

I also find it weird and diametrically opposite that Liverpool can't get over the Hillsborough stadium disaster. In fact I think Liverpool doesn't want to get over the Hillsborough stadium disaster. A bit like the endless bleating in the Middle East about past difficulties.

Perhaps what's needed to clear the air is a 25 year celebration of the Hillsborough disaster in a couple of years time with guided tours, parties, souvenirs etc....

As somebody who attended the 20th Anniversary memorial at Anfield I find your post quite offensive.

A party? Are you expecting Liverpool to go 'oh doesnt matter, all in the past, lets forget about it?'

[Willy Nilly]

martin84 said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

This Titanic stuff I find weird.

I also find it weird and diametrically opposite that Liverpool can't get over the Hillsborough stadium disaster. In fact I think Liverpool doesn't want to get over the Hillsborough stadium disaster. A bit like the endless bleating in the Middle East about past difficulties.

Perhaps what's needed to clear the air is a 25 year celebration of the Hillsborough disaster in a couple of years time with guided tours, parties, souvenirs etc....

As somebody who attended the 20th Anniversary memorial at Anfield I find your post quite offensive.

A party? Are you expecting Liverpool to go 'oh doesnt matter, all in the past, lets forget about it?'

You are kind of proving the point. Let bygones be bygones and all that lot.





There was someone on 5Live today, or was it the telly news, any way, they said they wanted "closure". What? It happened 100 years ago and you never knew anyone on the boat, nor did you parents, so from what do you want closure?

[martin84]

Willy Nilly said:

You are kind of proving the point. Let bygones be bygones and all that lot.

How about I take your children, crush them in a football stadium and ask you 23 years later if you want a parade, guided tour and souviners of it.

[Ozzie Osmond]

martin84 said:

How about I take your children, crush them in a football stadium and ask you 23 years later if you want a parade, guided tour and souviners of it.

The Clapham train crash occurred on 12 December 1988 just 4 months before Hillsborough. 35 people were killed and 500 injured. The trains have continued to run past the pitifully overgrown memorial every day of every year.

There have been well over 365 disastrous events in the last hundred years so we could be moping about with long faces every day of the year. There comes a time to move on.

[Willy Nilly]

martin84 said:

Willy Nilly said:

You are kind of proving the point. Let bygones be bygones and all that lot.

How about I take your children, crush them in a football stadium and ask you 23 years later if you want a parade, guided tour and souviners of it.

a) I have no children

b) I've not asked for a parade

we all know the reasons for what happened at Hillsborough and what caused it.

This was a thread about a ship sinking 100 years ago, not about crowd control problems at a football ground 20 odd years ago.

[martin84]

Ozzie Osmond said:

The Clapham train crash occurred on 12 December 1988 just 4 months before Hillsborough. 35 people were killed and 500 injured. The trains have continued to run past the pitifully overgrown memorial every day of every year.

There have been well over 365 disastrous events in the last hundred years so we could be moping about with long faces every day of the year. There comes a time to move on.

Thats it I'm ignoring this thread now. Any sensible mod would close it after comments like yours.

Goodbye.

[harry010]

Ozzie Osmond said:

The Clapham train crash occurred on 12 December 1988 just 4 months before Hillsborough. 35 people were killed and 500 injured. The trains have continued to run past the pitifully overgrown memorial every day of
every year.

There have been well over 365 disastrous events in the last hundred years so we could be moping about with long faces every day of the year.
There comes a time to move on.

Myself and my OH have said similar to this today. We do not wish to denigrate those that lost their lives at Hillsborough, however where do you draw the line? Have minutes silences ebery year for the Tube bombs, the Munich air crash, the victim of Harold Shipman?

No-one is saying people should forget, simply that we seem to have become a nation of professional mourners and the trend is mawkish in the extreme. Silences imo should be for enormous events such as armistice day or recent events.

Back on topic, memorial cruises and the like are in the same category as my thoughts in the previous paragraphs, of dubious taste and unnecessary - that said, having caught some of the "coverage" today, it would have been rubbish to have been on that ship.

[Eric Mc]

Noger said:

Having just been to the Titanic exhibition in Singapore, the "practically unsinkable" tag came from an article in Shipbuilder magazine in 1911.

What connection has Singapore got to the Titanic?

[ViperPict]

AndrewW-G said:

alfaman said:

martin84 said:

small things you can look at and say 'if that was done differently it wouldn't of happened.

2 of those (wierd facts)

1/ rivets were down-spec'd to use cheaper metal than the original spec. Hull plates burst along the rivet seams - unlikely this would have happened with better rivets

2/ if the ship had rammed straight into the ice head-on..instead of taking avoiding action... Almost certain it would not have sunk.

3/ The lookout normally had binoculars, the key to the cupboard containing them, was in the pocket of a crew member who wasn't on board when they left port

You also watched that programme last night then?