Lib Dems fall behind UKIP

[mattnunn]

GroundEffect said:

UKIP are a pack of idiots. I mean, bloody hell, their science representative is Lord Mockton ffs AND they promote homeopathy on the NHS.

Bunch of mentalists.

As did Keith Vaz and David Tredinnick, to be fair. Someone on the homeopathy council is putting something in the water at westminster.

see what I did there - very proud.

[0a]

pilchardthecat said:

Elroy Blue said:

If voting UKIP makes the current Tory MPs sit up and take notice of the incompetent shower at the head of the party, then it's worth it.

It didn't work at the last election. The torys would have a majority now instead of a coalition, but they are still just as pro-EU as the last lot.

I voted Tory at the last election, but wish I had voted UKIP. Prior to the EU referendum vote I wrote to my MP stating that I would not vote for her if she voted no. As a PPS she just followed the whip.

The Tories need to lose an election so they see why many of their core supporters think a term of Labour is a worthwhile price to pay for a wake up call.

Regarding the poll numbers, it is mid term and post a budget. The Tories have got the worst out the way so I have no doubt the numbers will rebound. In any case, at election time any spotlight on Miliband can only damage Labour's vote and bolster the Tories (they may not learn the UKIP lesson after all).

[Mojocvh]

Puggit said:

Mojocvh said:

"Seriously what's so good, morally, about charity"

Well I never.

It's for another thread - but his point is good. The government should look after everyone to a standard where charity is unnecessary.

No. I think that there should be a safety net, YES, but there should be opportunity [and not just in the SE] to make the most of yourself.

Hell you don't even need to come North of the Border to see how lack of investment and enterprise has destroyed whole swathes of formerly prosperous communities.......

[oyster]

Just 6 months ago, the Tories were doing very well in the polls, despite the fact that austerity was well underway and their election honeymoon period was over.

People here referring to poll results from 2 years ago and more are referencing the wrong comparison.

Anyhow, they were doing OK. Now there have been 3 major cock-ups with them in the last month.

1. Pasty tax
2. Granny tax
3. Charity tax

All of which came from the same budget. And how much money will they raise towards reducing the deficit. Well next to sweet FA.
The Granny tax is revenue neutral because it's going to pay for the increased personal allowances (and whose idea was that? Not even the Tories).

Osborne is the real weak point in the government right now and the sooner he goes the better.

[mattnunn]

oyster said:

Just 6 months ago, the Tories were doing very well in the polls, despite the fact that austerity was well underway and their election honeymoon period was over.

People here referring to poll results from 2 years ago and more are referencing the wrong comparison.

Anyhow, they were doing OK. Now there have been 3 major cock-ups with them in the last month.

1. Pasty tax
2. Granny tax
3. Charity tax

All of which came from the same budget. And how much money will they raise towards reducing the deficit. Well next to sweet FA.
The Granny tax is revenue neutral because it's going to pay for the increased personal allowances (and whose idea was that? Not even the Tories).

Osborne is the real weak point in the government right now and the sooner he goes the better.

"Mejia stick knife in" in other words.

All 3 taxes are correct, imo, and I'm not a traditional tory voting type, but don't let the facts stand between you and buying a copy of the daily mail.

[0a]

mattnunn said:

"Mejia stick knife in" in other words.

All 3 taxes are correct, imo, and I'm not a traditional tory voting type, but don't let the facts stand between you and buying a copy of the daily mail.

It's also amusing that two are not actually taxes. I agree that all three of these are quite correct. Charitable donations should come out of an individual's post tax income. The decision not to extend allowances for pensioners is fine because the general personal allowance is going up.

[scenario8]

mattnunn said:

"Mejia stick knife in" in other words.

All 3 taxes are correct, imo, and I'm not a traditional tory voting type, but don't let the facts stand between you and buying a copy of the daily mail.

for clarity (cos I don't understand what you mean) what facts are you referring to?

[oyster]

mattnunn said:

oyster said:

Just 6 months ago, the Tories were doing very well in the polls, despite the fact that austerity was well underway and their election honeymoon period was over.

People here referring to poll results from 2 years ago and more are referencing the wrong comparison.

Anyhow, they were doing OK. Now there have been 3 major cock-ups with them in the last month.

1. Pasty tax
2. Granny tax
3. Charity tax

All of which came from the same budget. And how much money will they raise towards reducing the deficit. Well next to sweet FA.
The Granny tax is revenue neutral because it's going to pay for the increased personal allowances (and whose idea was that? Not even the Tories).

Osborne is the real weak point in the government right now and the sooner he goes the better.

"Mejia stick knife in" in other words.

All 3 taxes are correct, imo, and I'm not a traditional tory voting type, but don't let the facts stand between you and buying a copy of the daily mail.

I read the FT by the way.

Anyhow, what you and I think of the above 3 taxes is totally irrelevant. The electorate perceive them to be unfair and they do nothing for the defecit.

The government recently awarded a 5.2% payrise to benefit recipients. That will not get one single extra vote and it will cost taxpayers an additional £10bn this year alone. That would account for about 30 pasty-type taxes.

Effectively the government (and especially the Tory side of the government) is not getting their message across. And that's because the message is distorted.

The pasty tax will raise maybe a few tens of millions of pounds this year. Granny tax will raise nothing. Charity tax might raise £100m. And voters are punishing them for it.
The benefit uplift has cost £10bn at least this year alone.

Are they trying to cut the defecit or not. As a Tory voter, even I'm not sure now.

[Derek Smith]

0a said:

The Tories need to lose an election so they see why many of their core supporters think a term of Labour is a worthwhile price to pay for a wake up call.

I think you will find the tories did indeed lose the last election. And that was against Brown after years of Blair. If they could not win in the middle of a financial crisis (in what we thought might be the middle) after those two jokers then I'm not sure what kind of wake-up call would be loud enough.

[mattnunn]

scenario8 said:

mattnunn said:

"Mejia stick knife in" in other words.

All 3 taxes are correct, imo, and I'm not a traditional tory voting type, but don't let the facts stand between you and buying a copy of the daily mail.

for clarity (cos I don't understand what you mean) what facts are you referring to?

1. Pasty tax - correct move by chancellour to close a loop hole that meant VAT was not chargable reheated cold food items allowing super markets to sell hot food without VAT whilst small hot food retailers were having to charge VAT - fact is I've burnt my mouth many a time on a gregg's cheese and onion so they were and always were above ambient temperature (yes I eat pasties)

2. Granny tax - It's not pleasant telling your gran she is a spoilt old bint and doesn't know she's born but trust me us people in our 30's raising famillies with no clear retirement age in sight and no savings have just about had enough of old people living off us, yes that's right, deal with it - Good move chancellour, I'd means test the state pension, introduce higher rate tax on pensions earning and bring back the cap on contributions, and double tax the over 50's ploughing everything into the pension.


3. Charity tax - As above, I see no reason why charitable donations shouldn't attract income tax. If you want to give money to charity why should I subsidise your charity donations, you could give £100million a year to the anti vivisection people, essentially UK plc picks up a £50million bill on that that we all have to subsidise.

[odyssey2200]

GroundEffect said:

UKIP are a pack of idiots. I mean, bloody hell, their science representative is Lord Mockton ffs AND they promote homeopathy on the NHS.

Bunch of mentalists.

Whats wrong with Monckton?

He has a better understanding of science than the current bunch.

[0a]

Derek Smith said:

I think you will find the tories did indeed lose the last election. And that was against Brown after years of Blair. If they could not win in the middle of a financial crisis (in what we thought might be the middle) after those two jokers then I'm not sure what kind of wake-up call would be loud enough.

Well Derek, they lost the least badly thus find themselves the dominant party in a coalition government holding all the important ministerial positions. This is very different from being out of government.

As an aside Labour have been very successful in building a client state from which they can draw support at the expense of the rest of us.

[scenario8]

mattnunn said:

scenario8 said:

mattnunn said:

"Mejia stick knife in" in other words.

All 3 taxes are correct, imo, and I'm not a traditional tory voting type, but don't let the facts stand between you and buying a copy of the daily mail.

for clarity (cos I don't understand what you mean) what facts are you referring to?

1. Pasty tax - correct move by chancellour to close a loop hole that meant VAT was not chargable reheated cold food items allowing super markets to sell hot food without VAT whilst small hot food retailers were having to charge VAT - fact is I've burnt my mouth many a time on a gregg's cheese and onion so they were and always were above ambient temperature (yes I eat pasties)

2. Granny tax - It's not pleasant telling your gran she is a spoilt old bint and doesn't know she's born but trust me us people in our 30's raising famillies with no clear retirement age in sight and no savings have just about had enough of old people living off us, yes that's right, deal with it - Good move chancellour, I'd means test the state pension, introduce higher rate tax on pensions earning and bring back the cap on contributions, and double tax the over 50's ploughing everything into the pension.


3. Charity tax - As above, I see no reason why charitable donations shouldn't attract income tax. If you want to give money to charity why should I subsidise your charity donations, you could give £100million a year to the anti vivisection people, essentially UK plc picks up a £50million bill on that that we all have to subsidise.

But they're all opinions, aren't they? (With the possible exception of the new information about burning your tongue).

[Jasandjules]

GroundEffect said:

UKIP are a pack of idiots. I mean, bloody hell, their science representative is Lord Mockton ffs AND they promote homeopathy on the NHS.

Bunch of mentalists.

That all sounds good to me.

As is less control of our laws by Europe....

[Marf]

scenario8 said:

But they're all opinions, aren't they? (With the possible exception of the new information about burning your tongue).

In relation to the Granny tax; An increasing aged population and declining pre retirement worker base to fund the aged population is a fact though, isnt it?

How else would you maintain the tax take in years to come without increasing the tax burden on an ever growing(and expensive to maintain) section of the population?

Edited by Marf on Tuesday 17th April 18:21

[Happy82]

We've an election coming up soon in my area, I've notified my Tory MP of the reasons I'll not be voting for her and why UKIP have my vote....I doubt it'll do much as most vote on tie colour rather than policies and they rely on this blind faith.

However.... another chap on my street is pissed off with the Watermelon movement that is common throughout the main three parties and so I suggested UKIP as a protest vote (if nothing else) seeing as they're the only party speaking out against Green lies, so I think he'll be voting that way too

There's two votes at least for UKIP

[bobbylondonuk]

Why do I have this idea that CMD is playing the electorate. Thinking about it, I imagine all the libdem and anti Tory policies are being put out there now during the mid term. I think the Tories will kick start their conservative ideas next year. That will bring the libdem revolt, which then by default means Tories start talking election in 1year and announce more conservative policies. No one will remember 2012, but the year before the election is what people will talk about.

At least that is how I would have played the game.

[scenario8]

Marf said:

scenario8 said:

But they're all opinions, aren't they? (With the possible exception of the new information about burning your tongue).

In relation to the Granny tax; An increasing aged population and declining pre retirement worker base to fund the aged population is a fact though, isnt it?

How else would you maintain the tax take in years to come without increasing the tax burden on an ever growing(and expensive to maintain) section of the population?

Edited by Marf on Tuesday 17th April 18:21

I agree it is a fact that the UK has an ageing population and that will bring with it many problems - including issues around taxation and government spending.

I was originally trying to get to the bottom of which "facts" a poster was referring to when he stated "don't let (these) facts stand between you and buying a copy of the Daily Mail". I'd inferred from his statement these facts had been explicitly stated previously but couldn't find them so asked for them to be clarified. He responded by posting opinions so I just took it he was using his original words as an expression in conversational English rather than in a literal sense.

[dandarez]

mattnunn said:

scenario8 said:

mattnunn said:

"Mejia stick knife in" in other words.

All 3 taxes are correct, imo, and I'm not a traditional tory voting type, but don't let the facts stand between you and buying a copy of the daily mail.

for clarity (cos I don't understand what you mean) what facts are you referring to?

2. Granny tax - It's not pleasant telling your gran she is a spoilt old bint and doesn't know she's born but trust me us people in our 30's raising famillies with no clear retirement age in sight and no savings have just about had enough of old people living off us, yes that's right, deal with it - Good move chancellour, I'd means test the state pension, introduce higher rate tax on pensions earning and bring back the cap on contributions, and double tax the over 50's ploughing everything into the pension.

Love the way grans and gramps are said to be 'spoilt old bints and 'spoilt old farts'.
'Don't know she's born'?
DO YOU?!

This 'old fart' a good local man recently died.


This was him when he was probably 15 years younger than you moaners.


Remember, you might have been bloody goosestepping under a swastika if it hadn't been for the 'old bint's' 'old farts'.

And also remember, one day - 'course only if you're lucky enough to reach that age - you too, will be an 'old fart'!

[Derek Smith]

0a said:

Well Derek, they lost the least badly thus find themselves the dominant party in a coalition government holding all the important ministerial positions. This is very different from being out of government.

As an aside Labour have been very successful in building a client state from which they can draw support at the expense of the rest of us.

You accept that they, like everyone else, lost?

The problem with UKIP is that it will cost the tories their coalition, all else being equal. The libdem defectors will go to labour and the tory unfaithful will jump ship to UKIP.

The hope for the tories is that another paty takes the black/muslim vote but that will probably be labour now that they've had their wake-up call. Further galloway is famous. Who's heard of the other participants?

Some might feel the rise of UKIP is not good news for the tories.