Employers might not be able to advertise "graduate" jobs

[zac510]

miniman said:

The absence of the correct educational achievements is a good reason not to promote someone who isn't up to it for sundry other reasons. In other words, a good excuse.

I was thinking the same thing. And from his side: lawsuit = personal vendetta.

[heppers75]

oyster said:

heppers75 said:

If you want another take on this kind of issue.

6 weeks ago I recruited a guy into a new business I have started, he was a 40 something chap from a larger corporate background and I had asked in interview on a number of occasions in interview was he happy to work in a dynamic startup, chip in all over the shop and bring his experience and help the team with his experience while helping me using mine to grow this business.

Yesterday he quit and said it was too fast paced and he couldn't cope essentially and he was desperate to get back to the safety net of big corporate.

I spoke to the recruitment guy who I had paid £6k to as a fee! He will backfill FoC but I had to say ... Mark I want a Software BA with customer facing experience who is 30 something, with decent relevant experience and has a young and dynamic outlook and is willing to just muck in, he said well I can't say any of that but leave it with me to translate etc... Madness as that is what I need.... It is what will make my business tick and be a success...

Today I am mostly going to be saying.... F88K Political Correctness!

What has the age of the guy you recruited got to do with whether he found your business too fast-paced? If he was in his 70's then maybe so, but 40's.... FFS.
And you're not being politically correct, you're being ageist!

Ok find me a guy in his 70's that can do my job and that£6k is yours!

[XJ40]

There's no substitute for experience in work or life, a degree is generally just a good tool for getting a foot in the door at a reasonable level (though obviously some careers require a good amount of theoretical training).

Edited by XJ40 on Thursday 26th April 09:30

[roachcoach]

It's about time this bullst "degree required for tea boy" style attitude was dropped.

Christ a quick google reveals a job asking for a degree for a job at £10 per hour. Get a grip.

[CBR JGWRR]

roachcoach said:

It's about time this bullst "degree required for tea boy" style attitude was dropped.

Christ a quick google reveals a job asking for a degree for a job at £10 per hour. Get a grip.

Exactly my point.

What is it?

[Eric Mc]

heppers75 said:

Ok find me a guy in his 70's that can do my job and that£6k is yours!

The mistake you made was that you selected an inappropriate employee. He wasn't inappropriate because of his age. He was inappropriate because he was inappropriate.

[oyster]

heppers75 said:

oyster said:

heppers75 said:

If you want another take on this kind of issue.

6 weeks ago I recruited a guy into a new business I have started, he was a 40 something chap from a larger corporate background and I had asked in interview on a number of occasions in interview was he happy to work in a dynamic startup, chip in all over the shop and bring his experience and help the team with his experience while helping me using mine to grow this business.

Yesterday he quit and said it was too fast paced and he couldn't cope essentially and he was desperate to get back to the safety net of big corporate.

I spoke to the recruitment guy who I had paid £6k to as a fee! He will backfill FoC but I had to say ... Mark I want a Software BA with customer facing experience who is 30 something, with decent relevant experience and has a young and dynamic outlook and is willing to just muck in, he said well I can't say any of that but leave it with me to translate etc... Madness as that is what I need.... It is what will make my business tick and be a success...

Today I am mostly going to be saying.... F88K Political Correctness!

What has the age of the guy you recruited got to do with whether he found your business too fast-paced? If he was in his 70's then maybe so, but 40's.... FFS.
And you're not being politically correct, you're being ageist!

Ok find me a guy in his 70's that can do my job and that£6k is yours!

Yes but you originally suggested the person had to be in their 30's to be able to do the job?
To assume that someone in their 40's or even 50's couldn't do it is surely ageist?

Of course if there are physical constraints then it's not ageism at all. But even then, many in their 40's are a hell of a lot fitter than the lazy 20-somethings who drink themselves to a stupor 4 times a week.

[Greg_D]

oyster said:

heppers75 said:

If you want another take on this kind of issue.

6 weeks ago I recruited a guy into a new business I have started, he was a 40 something chap from a larger corporate background and I had asked in interview on a number of occasions in interview was he happy to work in a dynamic startup, chip in all over the shop and bring his experience and help the team with his experience while helping me using mine to grow this business.

Yesterday he quit and said it was too fast paced and he couldn't cope essentially and he was desperate to get back to the safety net of big corporate.

I spoke to the recruitment guy who I had paid £6k to as a fee! He will backfill FoC but I had to say ... Mark I want a Software BA with customer facing experience who is 30 something, with decent relevant experience and has a young and dynamic outlook and is willing to just muck in, he said well I can't say any of that but leave it with me to translate etc... Madness as that is what I need.... It is what will make my business tick and be a success...

Today I am mostly going to be saying.... F88K Political Correctness!

What has the age of the guy you recruited got to do with whether he found your business too fast-paced? If he was in his 70's then maybe so, but 40's.... FFS.
And you're not being politically correct, you're being ageist!

and he was possibly being polite, he may have come to the conclusion that your startup is a 2 bit piece of crap that was never going to succeed and decided to bail while he could still prune it out of his CV

ps, i'm not saying your business is a PoC, it could be the next microsoft for all i know, but what i am saying is that he may well have used the "it's not you, it's me" line...

[heppers75]

Greg_D said:

and he was possibly being polite, he may have come to the conclusion that your startup is a 2 bit piece of crap that was never going to succeed and decided to bail while he could still prune it out of his CV

ps, i'm not saying your business is a PoC, it could be the next microsoft for all i know, but what i am saying is that he may well have used the "it's not you, it's me" line...

Possibly but to be fair he was a bit of a square peg in a round hole as far as fitting in was concerned, what I want is someone with a young and dynamic outlook which is someone that is more prevalent I have found with folks that have a decade or so under their belt but have not 'got stale' for want of a better phrase. They could well be in their 50's etc, one of my business partners is 67 and he has it!

He had made all the right noises about that during interview etc but when it came down to actually doing it he was uncomfortable with the reality of it.

[Eric Mc]

So you DON'T agree with specifying an age for a candidate. Being young and having a young atitude are not the same.

[roachcoach]

CBR JGWRR said:

roachcoach said:

It's about time this bullst "degree required for tea boy" style attitude was dropped.

Christ a quick google reveals a job asking for a degree for a job at £10 per hour. Get a grip.

Exactly my point.

What is it?

From memory (it's been a rough morning) some admin/HR admin assistant.

I just jumped onto one of the random job sites, added keyword "degree" and picked administration as the skillset.

[iphonedyou]

Wonder how that will affect the graduate schemes

[CBR JGWRR]

roachcoach said:

CBR JGWRR said:

roachcoach said:

It's about time this bullst "degree required for tea boy" style attitude was dropped.

Christ a quick google reveals a job asking for a degree for a job at £10 per hour. Get a grip.

Exactly my point.

What is it?

From memory (it's been a rough morning) some admin/HR admin assistant.

I just jumped onto one of the random job sites, added keyword "degree" and picked administration as the skillset.

No doubt it would want experience as well...

[XJ40]

I think Pele should take United to court for not extending him a job opportunity as a member of the playing staff, his CV is second to none.

[stinkysteve]

"cold not gain the qualification before his retirement date"

Which Judge failed to consider that there is no mandatory retirement date any more? (i may have missed a salient point somewhere)



I've come across similar issues in the past:

I'm told i can't give long service awards.

i offer an extra day's annual leave once you've been with the company 5 years, and an extra day at every 5 years after that. I was told this discriminated against 'youth' as an 18 year old could not have 5 years service and hence could not be eligible.

I still have the policy in place and await a legal challenge.

[Dr Jekyll]

voyds9 said:

Would you prefer your doctor to have a degree or plenty of experience.

Would your thoughts change if he was getting the experience on you.

Not a fair comparison because medical students have to gain experience with patients as part of their training.

Given a choice between a doctor who had done the on the job training but not taken the exam, and one who had swotted enough to pass the exam but not met any patients, I'd go for the former.

[glazbagun]

I would say it depends entirely on the job.

[Shuvi McTupya]

stinkysteve said:

"cold not gain the qualification before his retirement date"

Which Judge failed to consider that there is no mandatory retirement date any more? (i may have missed a salient point somewhere)



I've come across similar issues in the past:

I'm told i can't give long service awards.

i offer an extra day's annual leave once you've been with the company 5 years, and an extra day at every 5 years after that. I was told this discriminated against 'youth' as an 18 year old could not have 5 years service and hence could not be eligible.

I still have the policy in place and await a legal challenge.

My dad has recently retired on a nice pension.

I don't think that should be allowed as that offer would not be available to an 18yr old

[ninja-lewis]

iphonedyou said:

Wonder how that will affect the graduate schemes

I'm not sure it will. The court case seems to be more about the lack of transitional arrangements for existing staff than new hires.

[martin84]

Kermit power said:

On the face of it, that's bloody ridiculous! What next? No discriminating against people without driving licences when advertising for a chauffeur?

Oh dont be stupid. A driving licence is a legal requirement to drive a car so you're comparing apples and bananas. The doctor example is also stupid because I believe theres laws against unqualified doctors in this country. Now if a car driver job asked for a graduate with a driving licence that'd be more relevent to this thread.

Theres nothing wrong with requesting certain qualifications to do certain jobs of course, I'd want a History teacher to have some form of qualification in that field for instance. I think the point is theres so many jobs which ask for graduates now which simply dont require them. I saw a job advertised recently for a Mortgage Advisor and it specified Graduate level of education. They didnt ask for a specific degree, seems any degree will do. How does a degree in medievil history make you a more competent Mortgage Advisor?

Theres plenty of people out there without degrees but with vast amounts of experience who are fast being made redundant these days, if those people could apply for the 'Graduate' jobs it'd greatly increase competition and stop inept graduates walking into a job because they spent a few more years at school learning nothing relevent to the job they applied for.