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P-Jay
3,648 posts
60 months
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AshVX220 said: FFS read and understand the UKIP Manifesto, instead of towing the "One trick pony" line.
They have more credible idea's about fixing the economy than the other parties put together, they understand how to get the deficit down and the economy moving for a start.
And no, the public sector does not = the economy. If they're not a one policy party, why set their stall out by calling themselves "the UK independence party" If someone knocked my door claiming to be from the 'Votes for Dogs Party' it would be fair to assume their big issue was to allow Dogs a vote. I want the UK to remain part of Europe their rhetoric goes against all that so I don't bother to research any further – and more people agree with me, than they do with UKIP. If they truly are a mutli-policy party interested in every aspect of life in Britain they should set their stall out as such, but they don't, because whilst they offer an manifesto covering many subjects no doubt, they're core belief is based on a Xenophobic view of the EU and their great aim for us to it leave it.
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AJS-
Original Poster
10,017 posts
105 months
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Any examples of this xenophobia?
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ewenm
24,467 posts
114 months
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I have no idea who I'd vote for in a general election now. Our MP is unsure whether he's going to stand again and as none of the major parties appear to have a clear ideology, I can't predict what policies each one will come up with in an election, so have no way of choosing at the moment.
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odyssey2200
17,500 posts
78 months
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P-Jay said: they'reTHEIR core belief is based on a Xenophobic view of the EU and their great aim for us to it leave it.
fixed that for you  as opposed to the other parties who are too busy short stroking over the EU and handing over sovereignty. power and cash in return for restrictions, red tape, regulation and aggro.
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0a
8,442 posts
63 months
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speedy_thrills said: They are exceptions and exceptional. I can't think of anywhere UKIP is close to a seat or anyone UKIP has that could win a seat. Even in the target seat of Buckingham where Farage himself stood he didn't even make half of the votes he needed. UKIP acts as the conscience of the Tories and they have/will have a big impact on UK politics by allowing Tories to register their unhappiness with the pro-EU, anti-business, high tax/spend Tory policies. The benefit of sending this message via a UKIP vote is, in my opinion, now more than the disadvantage of Labour government getting elected given how similar the two parties are in the areas mentioned above. Labour are unlikely to be able to spend any more than the Tories are already given our debt levels - it would be IMF bailout time (with mandated spending cuts - perhaps not a bad thing). It will be interesting to watch how this plays out. For the first time I know many, many people who are intelligent and "non-swivel-eyed" who will be voting UKIP - they are not just saying it!
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oyster
5,220 posts
117 months
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AshVX220 said: FFS read and understand the UKIP Manifesto, instead of towing the "One trick pony" line.
They have more credible idea's about fixing the economy than the other parties put together, they understand how to get the deficit down and the economy moving for a start.
And no, the public sector does not = the economy. I've seen their ideas and there's a lot of very expensive, un-costed ideas on there. I cannot believe they are suggesting they can fund them all just by not paying the UK's subs to the EU. Remember, some of those subs we get back, so the net contribution may only be a few £bn.
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oyster
5,220 posts
117 months
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0a said: speedy_thrills said: They are exceptions and exceptional. I can't think of anywhere UKIP is close to a seat or anyone UKIP has that could win a seat. Even in the target seat of Buckingham where Farage himself stood he didn't even make half of the votes he needed. UKIP acts as the conscience of the Tories and they have/will have a big impact on UK politics by allowing Tories to register their unhappiness with the pro-EU, anti-business, high tax/spend Tory policies. The benefit of sending this message via a UKIP vote is, in my opinion, now more than the disadvantage of Labour government getting elected given how similar the two parties are in the areas mentioned above. Labour are unlikely to be able to spend any more than the Tories are already given our debt levels - it would be IMF bailout time (with mandated spending cuts - perhaps not a bad thing). It will be interesting to watch how this plays out. For the first time I know many, many people who are intelligent and "non-swivel-eyed" who will be voting UKIP - they are not just saying it! I'm not quite sure what message you're trying to send. The Tories are as anti-europe now as they were when Thatcher was in power. The government might not be, but we don't have a Tory government. Anyway, since when are the Tories a high spend party? And anti-business...? In what way? And more to the point - in what way are UKIP showing themselves to be pro-business or lower spending?
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P-Jay
3,648 posts
60 months
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odyssey2200 said: P-Jay said: they'reTHEIR core belief is based on a Xenophobic view of the EU and their great aim for us to it leave it.
fixed that for you as opposed to the other parties who are too busy short stroking over the EU and handing over sovereignty. power and cash in return for restrictions, red tape, regulation and aggro. Thanks, my Polish education was a little light on the various There, Their, They're combinations. I've decided that debating about what sort of Government UKIP would make is as pointless as debating what how a boat made out of cheese would perform, sure you can talk about it endlessly, but you'll never find a large enough group of idiots to build one. Carry on.
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0a
8,442 posts
63 months
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oyster said: I cannot believe they are suggesting they can fund them all just by not paying the UK's subs to the EU. Remember, some of those subs we get back, so the net contribution may only be a few £bn. But this simply isn't the case. They suggest plenty more to help balance the books: UKIP website said: UK national debt will exceed £1.4 trillion by the end of this Parliament by which time Osborne’s cuts will not even equal our EU contributions. Public spending is increasing and the Coalition’s cuts do not scratch the surface of Labour’s deficit. We must cut down Government if we are to return to a sound economy.
• EU ‘renewable’ energy rules will double electricity bills by 2020. Global warming is not proven - wind power is futile. Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas.
• Quangos cost us £60bn each year – at least half the cost of the NHS. Bring them under Parliament’s control and cut the cost substantially.
• Make real and rigorous cuts in foreign aid and replace with free trade.
...
• Ensure that benefits are only for those who have lived here for over 5 years. Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy. This is aside from the many economic they suggest - flat taxes, reduction in NI and business tax, reforming pensions – that would change economic incentives. It's hard to compare to mainstream parties directly but to say they are reliant on EU savings money is incorrect and their position is an interesting one to consider.
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oyster
5,220 posts
117 months
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0a said: oyster said: I cannot believe they are suggesting they can fund them all just by not paying the UK's subs to the EU. Remember, some of those subs we get back, so the net contribution may only be a few £bn. But this simply isn't the case. They suggest plenty more to help balance the books: UKIP website said: UK national debt will exceed £1.4 trillion by the end of this Parliament by which time Osborne’s cuts will not even equal our EU contributions. Public spending is increasing and the Coalition’s cuts do not scratch the surface of Labour’s deficit. We must cut down Government if we are to return to a sound economy.
• EU ‘renewable’ energy rules will double electricity bills by 2020. Global warming is not proven - wind power is futile. Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas.
• Quangos cost us £60bn each year – at least half the cost of the NHS. Bring them under Parliament’s control and cut the cost substantially.
• Make real and rigorous cuts in foreign aid and replace with free trade.
...
• Ensure that benefits are only for those who have lived here for over 5 years. Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy. This is aside from the many economic they suggest - flat taxes, reduction in NI and business tax, reforming pensions – that would change economic incentives. It's hard to compare to mainstream parties directly but to say they are reliant on EU savings money is incorrect and their position is an interesting one to consider. In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed). I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe.
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AshVX220
1,806 posts
59 months
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oyster said: In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed).
I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe. Why? Genuine Question.
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Halb
17,867 posts
52 months
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P-Jay said: If they're not a one policy party, why set their stall out by calling themselves "the UK independence party" If someone knocked my door claiming to be from the 'Votes for Dogs Party' it would be fair to assume their big issue was to allow Dogs a vote. I want the UK to remain part of Europe their rhetoric goes against all that so I don't bother to research any further – and more people agree with me, than they do with UKIP.
If they truly are a mutli-policy party interested in every aspect of life in Britain they should set their stall out as such, but they don't, because whilst they offer an manifesto covering many subjects no doubt, they're core belief is based on a Xenophobic view of the EU and their great aim for us to it leave it. That is how they started, and it is a decent enough name. Just as the advert says all things are connected to politics, so all politics within the UK are connected to the EU. Things don't exist in a vacuum. Comparing to a party for dog votes is not appropriate since that isn't an all inclusive fundamental policy. As for people agreeing, if the UK was to be allowed a referendum on membership ( a crazy dangerous thought for a real democracy) the outcome is open. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/24/eu-ref...UKiP have set out there stall as such, from the posts above which show their policies. It's not just out of the EU. 
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odyssey2200
17,500 posts
78 months
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Ironic that the Labour party is the choice of the work shy and lazy.
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WhoseGeneration
4,090 posts
76 months
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I'd love to see the reports from those who monitor the Internet for the political parties.
Nevermind such as YouGov and private polling, the views expressed on the Internet are a better source.
Perhaps why the politicians seek to control the Internet?
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0a
8,442 posts
63 months
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oyster said: In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed).
I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe. I do know what you mean - they need a bit of polish. As an example look at the metadata they have used (ie the stuff that gets picked up and used as the description in Google):  When choosing what to say about themselves the second thing is "we're not racist".
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Derek Smith
16,056 posts
117 months
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0a said: I do know what you mean - they need a bit of polish. As an example look at the metadata they have used (ie the stuff that gets picked up and used as the description in Google): When choosing what to say about themselves the second thing is "we're not racist". You think they should say they are racist?
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AshVX220
1,806 posts
59 months
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Derek Smith said: 0a said: I do know what you mean - they need a bit of polish. As an example look at the metadata they have used (ie the stuff that gets picked up and used as the description in Google): When choosing what to say about themselves the second thing is "we're not racist". You think they should say they are racist? They aren't racist, unfortunately, because so many put them in the same bracket as the BNP, though God knows why, they have to make the point that they aren't like the BNP. Even on this very thread there have been posters talking about how UKIP are a bunch of far-right swiveled racists with only one policy. Which is entirely un-true. But you try telling them that.
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pablo
10,291 posts
142 months
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odyssey2200 said: Ironic that the Labour party is the choice of the work shy and lazy. i dont think the work shy and the lazy affiliate themselves to a particular party. Likewise I dont think that the unskilled/manual labour employees do either. you only have to look at voter turnout figures to realise that a vast majority of people do not vote. to vote, imho, you have to care, and the lazy and the workshy are unlikely to be that bohtered. htey care only about benefits and doing their best to avoid work. if you think they are inclined to study party politics, manifestos and the implications of what might happen should a particualr party get into power, i think you are mistaken. i would take a guess that the voter turnout for those who earn <£20K is minimal. Of course all this assumes that by "work shy and lazy" you dont actually mean "public sector" anyone pick up on Baroness Warsi's UKIP/BNP comment and done some research? might make a few people here who voted UKIP in this poll wince a little?
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oyster
5,220 posts
117 months
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AshVX220 said: oyster said: In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed).
I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe. Why? Genuine Question. My business involves a lot of trade with European countries, often involving moving consultants around. With open borders and no issues on working visas this makes it much easier. Most (not all but most) of fellow business people I speak to are strongly in favour of even closer harmonisation within the EU.
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chris watton
12,375 posts
129 months
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oyster said: AshVX220 said: oyster said: In all fairness they sound good conservative-style policies (if a little wishy-washy and un-costed).
I might even be tempted to vote for them, but they alarm me with their disdain for Europe. Why? Genuine Question. My business involves a lot of trade with European countries, often involving moving consultants around. With open borders and no issues on working visas this makes it much easier. Most (not all but most) of fellow business people I speak to are strongly in favour of even closer harmonisation within the EU. All of my business is through an EU country, but I see no reason why the UK coming out of the EU would change this - why do you think it would alter your relationship with the companies you deal with within the EU?
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