Is Cameron an utter failure?
Discussion
Munter said:
cal216610 said:
NobleGuy said:
How can anyone have such a short memory as to think going anywhere near Labour for the next 200 years is something you'd want to think about...? How many billions has Mr Smiler and Mr Dour wasted? Jesus man...unbelievable 
I think lots of folk were expecting changes overnight and not really knowing the depth of s
te we are/were in.Scary the people who seem to think it can all be fixed in a few months. I'm thinking decades from now for us to have recovered.
Quite often when a plan takes too long to implement then it becomes impossible.
By their own plans it will take them 5 years to even balance the budget, and that is just an absurd amount of time. In that time unions, public sector groups and so forth will have marshaled themselves against reform, Labour will be resurgent, and the public will be fed up with a BBC led campaign of dour misery about cuts and economic gloom.
We're already coming up to the half way point of this parliament and most of the above is already well underway, while forecasts of a recovery made in 2010 are now looking optimistic.
The argument should have been had before the last election, and they would have either been elected with a mandate to fix things, or not. As it is they are in the stupid position of being elected with no mandate to do anything. Even by now, dramatic cuts in 2010 and early 2011 would be drifting into history, and come 2015 a recovery would be underway.
Instead, they said whatever was necessary to appease the BBC and the mythical "middle ground" and all this really achieved was making them acceptable coalition partners to the Lib Dems in an impotent coalition. And they've done so at a time when no government could come out popular unless they actually were in a position to fix things. It's a bit like grabbing the wheel of a car that's already driven over the cliff, when it would be far better to try and get into a good place for the landing and aftermath.
It's probably too late now - Labour will get elected next time and drive us deeper into the s
t. The best hope is that in the election after that either a sensible Tory party or even a UKIP party can form a government and actually do what is needed.A UKIP government is far fetched, but you never know - a few major defections, a continued economic slump and an impending default could get things moving in that direction over the next 10 years.
bobbylondonuk said:
You can work as hard as you like and deliver the best results....all good.
But we are talking numbers here and sentiments dont apply in that equation. For the cost of running the state...
Public sector spending (your wages) - discount on the cost (your taxes) = total net spending.
The income for the public sector spending is the taxes on private sector profits.
So what do you think we should do if the income(pvt sector taxes) are less than the cost(your wages-taxes)???? This question is what needs to be asked in the real world.
Why have you taken the post and not quoted with it what it was replying to? Just means its now taken out of context. Cheers for mentioning it's about figures but that wasn't the point of the reply!But we are talking numbers here and sentiments dont apply in that equation. For the cost of running the state...
Public sector spending (your wages) - discount on the cost (your taxes) = total net spending.
The income for the public sector spending is the taxes on private sector profits.
So what do you think we should do if the income(pvt sector taxes) are less than the cost(your wages-taxes)???? This question is what needs to be asked in the real world.
Cameron has invented the Government Digital Service. This unit has taken over from nothing so is entirely new. It advertised for 42 (that's forty-two) IT posts, and a total salary of 3.5m pa. And then there are the admin roles. So much for the bonfire of the quangos.
But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
Derek Smith said:
Cameron has invented the Government Digital Service. This unit has taken over from nothing so is entirely new. It advertised for 42 (that's forty-two) IT posts, and a total salary of 3.5m pa. And then there are the admin roles. So much for the bonfire of the quangos.
But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
Are you suggesting that this is somehow indicative of his uselessness....? We could go back over Labour's efforts in the IT world if you want your eyes to water at the thought of their unprecedented level of waste.But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
I have no doubt that Labour are going to get back in unless things start improving soon, but it's probably going to have more to do with people's inexplicable amnesia along with genuine stupidity.
I had to laugh at the OP moaning about immigration when he claims to live in Portugal. Perhaps Portugal should tighten up immigration.
Anyway, he should read these 2 articles, which are exactly about what the coalition has and has not done.
http://www.economist.com/node/21554515
http://www.economist.com/node/21554567
Since he probably won't read them, here's the concluding paragraph of the second article:
Anyway, he should read these 2 articles, which are exactly about what the coalition has and has not done.
http://www.economist.com/node/21554515
http://www.economist.com/node/21554567
Since he probably won't read them, here's the concluding paragraph of the second article:
The Economist said:
It is, all in all, a mixed record for two years of toil. But what ultimately stands out about the government’s work is not its success or otherwise, but its sheer magnitude. Tony Blair is remembered (including by leading Tories) as a reformer. He saw through great constitutional changes and introduced some competition to the National Health Service. But his education and welfare reforms were modest. In one fifth of the time, with less of an electoral mandate and in much tougher economic conditions, the coalition has tried to do much more.
andymadmak said:
KENZ said:
Is this goverment not having to borrow 60Billion more than the last. Even when Brown was leader it was never this bad. At least we were coming out of a recession, not heading into a second, double dip..
We need smarter minds that can provide stimulus, confidence and promote grow in this economy. Granted the present alternative ain't great. However I think Blair could gather a good team again.
The first recession was made by Brown. The second recession is a combination of Eurozone on its arse and the need to tighten our belts. Simples. We would not have to tighten our belts if Brown and Blair hadn't spent every bit of cash we had and then some, and then some more, and then robbed the pension funds and spent that, and spent and spent and spent and spent.. We need smarter minds that can provide stimulus, confidence and promote grow in this economy. Granted the present alternative ain't great. However I think Blair could gather a good team again.
Now, I do understand that for some people, the simple act of changing Government two years ago means that everything that went before simply disappears in a puff of white smoke, and the new kids get to carry the can for everything that happens from then on in. However, back amongst the sane, the reality is that the mess was /is huge and it will take a long time to sort out.
Think of it this way.
You and your neighbour both work at the same factory. You earn about the same.
Your neighbour spends money like water. He maxes out every credit card he has and only makes the minimum payment monthly on each one. He splashes the cash on fancy holidays, a new car every year, eats out regularly, has all the latest gizmos as soon as they appear on the market. He is constantly remortgaging his house so as to cash in on the "equity" he has in it as a result of house prices rising. He hires a gardner and a window cleaner. He even has a lady do his ironing, on account of his wife not wishing to engage in manual work... .
You, on the other hand, are a bit prudent. You save a bit, you only use the credit card when you have to, and you pay it off monthly. You change your car every three years or so. You maybe wait till the new gizmos have come down in price a bit before you buy them, and you and the missus maybe eat out once a month. You're paying down your mortgage. You do your own gardening and ironing.Your missus works hard too.
Then something nasty happens. Customers have stopped buying what your factory makes and as a result the place is put on short time. Your and your neighbours earnings fall by 30%.
Thats really tough for your household. So, you cancel the meals out, decide to go to Torquay for your hols instead of Trinidad, and keep the car for an extra year before changing it. You stop buying gizmos. You have some savings and this helps. Plus you have a great credit rating, so you can borrow cheaply if you need to. You and your missus look at maybe taking a second job or two. You do what you can to manage the situation. You make tough choices.
Your neighbour however is in real trouble. He cannot afford the drop in income. In fact he needs his income to carry on rising as he has borrowed against a projected pay rise he was never promissed but simpoly assumed he would get!
He cannot pay less to the card companies, he is already on the minimum. So he tries, but cannot get another card!
Bizarrely though, he still keeps spending. He complains that his holidays, cars, meals and gizmos are essential, nay they are his by human right! He has a hole in his roof, so some of his gizmos are being ruined by the rain, but he decides to spend what little money he has on a new 60 inch plasma from Brighthouse instead of the repair. His kids get pneumonia from the wet bedding caused by the leaking roof, but that's not his fault.
It's not his fault he can't pay his bills, fix his roof or protect his family. It's not his fault he has no savings. It's all the nasty customers fault, and the banks, oh yes the banks, cos they LET him borrow didn't they? It's not his fault they said yes to his repeated requests for more funds! Indeed, in his mind, the problem now is not that he persists in spending too much, but rather that he is not spending enough! If he could spend more, then, well, he could stimulate the local economy. The minor details as to just whos money he is going to have to get his hands on to spend really doesnt factor for now. He just wants to keep spending becuase he is comfortable with his life and does not want to change it.
So you take him to one side and you point out that the mess is of his own making. That he has to economise. He needs to be sensible, cut out the fripperies and concentrate on keeping a roof over his head and paying down the debt.
He reacts angrilly. How can you criticise him? Huh, your car is MUCH older than his, so that means you're clearly an idiot. But wait a minute, YOU have money, YOU have savings, YOU have a credit rating that means you can borrow if you need to... THATS IT!!!!! It's your fault he's in a mess! The answer is simple! He'll spend YOUR money. He can change his car this year after all. Still doesn't fix the roof mind... thats for social services to do. In fact so many people are relying on social services to fix the roof, rather than fixing it themselves, that YOUR savings now have a special tax on them just to pay for the rise in Government expenditure.
In the final analysis, your savings are gone. Spent to prop up your spendthrift neighbour and those just like him.
I don't think there's much Brown could have done about the first recession. It was so deep that most of the world went into negative growth.
It's the overspending of Brown though that has stopped the current government from using spare cash to grow the economy whilst our trading partners suffer.
NobleGuy said:
Derek Smith said:
Cameron has invented the Government Digital Service. This unit has taken over from nothing so is entirely new. It advertised for 42 (that's forty-two) IT posts, and a total salary of 3.5m pa. And then there are the admin roles. So much for the bonfire of the quangos.
But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
Are you suggesting that this is somehow indicative of his uselessness....? We could go back over Labour's efforts in the IT world if you want your eyes to water at the thought of their unprecedented level of waste.But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
I have no doubt that Labour are going to get back in unless things start improving soon, but it's probably going to have more to do with people's inexplicable amnesia along with genuine stupidity.
Derek Smith said:
I'm not sure what what labour has to do with Cameron's promise. DC said he would instigate a bonfire of the quangos, which he didn't. Instead he creates a new one. I don't see how labour's performance changes or mitigates his.
Be fair, creating a new one isn't the net effect he's had on them.oyster said:
Mojocvh said:
Pesty said:
Mojocvh said:
I hope this is the right thread 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18138447
Another total fail from the mong himself!
What did he say about this at the time?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18138447
Another total fail from the mong himself!
The same as his latest failing when he opened his mouth {on the same subject} again today!
Derek Smith said:
NobleGuy said:
Derek Smith said:
Cameron has invented the Government Digital Service. This unit has taken over from nothing so is entirely new. It advertised for 42 (that's forty-two) IT posts, and a total salary of 3.5m pa. And then there are the admin roles. So much for the bonfire of the quangos.
But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
Are you suggesting that this is somehow indicative of his uselessness....? We could go back over Labour's efforts in the IT world if you want your eyes to water at the thought of their unprecedented level of waste.But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
I have no doubt that Labour are going to get back in unless things start improving soon, but it's probably going to have more to do with people's inexplicable amnesia along with genuine stupidity.
Especially compared to what, £25 or so billion?
Did you vote for him on the basis of him getting rid of quangos?
NobleGuy said:
Derek Smith said:
NobleGuy said:
Derek Smith said:
Cameron has invented the Government Digital Service. This unit has taken over from nothing so is entirely new. It advertised for 42 (that's forty-two) IT posts, and a total salary of 3.5m pa. And then there are the admin roles. So much for the bonfire of the quangos.
But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
Are you suggesting that this is somehow indicative of his uselessness....? We could go back over Labour's efforts in the IT world if you want your eyes to water at the thought of their unprecedented level of waste.But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
I have no doubt that Labour are going to get back in unless things start improving soon, but it's probably going to have more to do with people's inexplicable amnesia along with genuine stupidity.
Especially compared to what, £25 or so billion?
Did you vote for him on the basis of him getting rid of quangos?
The major point though is that it is money. One thing I have learned when trying to balance personal income/expenditure is that there are no 'small change'. You spend nothing you don't have to. If it doesn't bring in more that you are paying out, it goes. On top of that, this IT qungo, plus that other one he's allowed to continue, and that other one, oh! and that one over there, soon adds up. And is adding up.
Derek Smith said:
NobleGuy said:
Derek Smith said:
NobleGuy said:
Derek Smith said:
Cameron has invented the Government Digital Service. This unit has taken over from nothing so is entirely new. It advertised for 42 (that's forty-two) IT posts, and a total salary of 3.5m pa. And then there are the admin roles. So much for the bonfire of the quangos.
But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
Are you suggesting that this is somehow indicative of his uselessness....? We could go back over Labour's efforts in the IT world if you want your eyes to water at the thought of their unprecedented level of waste.But then it has already produced a report, the intent of which is to clarify the law on cookies. Which it doesn't.
I have no doubt that Labour are going to get back in unless things start improving soon, but it's probably going to have more to do with people's inexplicable amnesia along with genuine stupidity.
Especially compared to what, £25 or so billion?
Did you vote for him on the basis of him getting rid of quangos?
The major point though is that it is money. One thing I have learned when trying to balance personal income/expenditure is that there are no 'small change'. You spend nothing you don't have to. If it doesn't bring in more that you are paying out, it goes. On top of that, this IT qungo, plus that other one he's allowed to continue, and that other one, oh! and that one over there, soon adds up. And is adding up.
2. If you google it, you'll find that 1/3rd of quangos have already gone. In just 2 years I'd say that's pretty good going.
Derek Smith said:
He identified quangos as a leach on society. He promised to get rid of them. He has not done so ans has, indeed, started a number of othem. The point is not whether £3.5m is a small amount of money, it is that he has failed on one of his promises.
What's worse for me is not that he has failed on an objective or a promise, but what it says about the underlying philosophy, or lack thereof - His overriding answer to any given problem or issue he is faced with is more "experts" more quangos and more legislation. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff