Milliband clever?

[Derek Smith]

Puggit said:

Derek is beginning to sound like some of the Telegraph writers affiliated to the Conservatives

I've read the UKIP manifesto. It would appear to me that much of what they promise depends on Britain becoming rich as soon as we leave the EU. This won't happen. Nor will their promise of doubling the number of prison places. Where on earth do you think they will get the money for that?

It seems odd that people criticise all parties for promising the answer to everyone's prayers as they won't but then believe the UKIP promises despite the fact that they have absolutely no idea where the money is coming from.

For a manifesto to mean anything it has to be costed. UKIP's is a wish list, a wet dream for Mail readers. The only thing that they can offer with any degree of certainty is a referendum on the EU. Everything else is pie in the sky.

I'm not sure why you should think I'm affiliated to any party, let alone the Telegraph version of the tories. Whilst I am as political as the next person I have no party politics. I hate the lot of them. And that includes Farage as he promises to be the clean guy and then produces make-believe. Increase this, increase that, send all these people home: believe that if you will. I don't.

[Apache]

Derek Smith said:

Puggit said:

Derek is beginning to sound like some of the Telegraph writers affiliated to the Conservatives

I've read the UKIP manifesto. It would appear to me that much of what they promise depends on Britain becoming rich as soon as we leave the EU. This won't happen. Nor will their promise of doubling the number of prison places. Where on earth do you think they will get the money for that?

It seems odd that people criticise all parties for promising the answer to everyone's prayers as they won't but then believe the UKIP promises despite the fact that they have absolutely no idea where the money is coming from.

For a manifesto to mean anything it has to be costed. UKIP's is a wish list, a wet dream for Mail readers. The only thing that they can offer with any degree of certainty is a referendum on the EU. Everything else is pie in the sky.

I'm not sure why you should think I'm affiliated to any party, let alone the Telegraph version of the tories. Whilst I am as political as the next person I have no party politics. I hate the lot of them. And that includes Farage as he promises to be the clean guy and then produces make-believe. Increase this, increase that, send all these people home: believe that if you will. I don't.

I don't either, I don't believe any of them and like you I despise the lot of them. But, it's far better to have another swimmer in the gene pool than the same old same old choice of red and blue.....or should that be orange and blue?

[thinfourth2]

lazystudent said:

There will never be a referendum!

i can't see why not

What are your thoughts on the UKs future in the EU

1 Yes I think it important we stay in the EU

2 No i think we should stay in the EU

[lazystudent]

thinfourth2 said:

lazystudent said:

There will never be a referendum!

i can't see why not

What are your thoughts on the UKs future in the EU

1 Yes I think it important we stay in the EU

2 No i think we should stay in the EU

More along the lines of:

"Are you in favour of the huge economic benefits of being in the EU, apart from the financial crisis which was caused by all the 'nasty bankers'"

Yes I love it when the country prospers and I think of the children and love happiness and all
No, I'm anti growth and a banker supporter and generally like witchcraft and evilness

[Lost_BMW]

Derek Smith said:

It is an obvious reaction to the problems of the Tories and the rise of UKIP, the latter in reality having just the one policy.

Not true.


However, if they promise to have a referendum within 12 months of forming a government, would any historic tory voter consider putting their cross against a labour candidate?

Doubt it, there'd be enough worries about the other (real) policies they'd put in place to ruin us to more than outweigh any potential gain from getting our canoe out of st creek, even if one thought that necessary/a good idea.


This could be the start of something big.

Doubt it!

[12gauge]

Derek Smith said:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/20/ed-...

I'm very pro Europe although not in its present format. I was brought up in a family devastated by the two world wars and a unified Europe was seen as a way of stopping a repeat..

Not this BS again. Most wars are fought for independence, not empire building. The EU is far more likely to create the conditions for war than prevent them.

I wouldn't die or spent a life in jail for much, but to get our sovereignty back from the fascist creeps in Brussels i would.

[Derek Smith]

Apache said:

I don't either, I don't believe any of them and like you I despise the lot of them. But, it's far better to have another swimmer in the gene pool than the same old same old choice of red and blue.....or should that be orange and blue?

I'm all for greater choice as well. However, I'm not sure if UKIP offers anything. The last time there was a credible new party, at least in my time, was the SDP. There was the brilliant gang of three, with Jenkins, Williams and the other one. Oh! and Owen as well. These came over as honest and straightforward, if a little bit too intelligent for most of us. Williams was especially impressive. They had excellently thought-through policies which weren't a case of 'something else' but an option. I might not have agreed with everything they said, but if, as they seemed, they were dependable then I thought them worth a punt. But they were rejected.

Since them I've not seen any party that has me believing in them.

Farage might well be another swimmer but he, like the libdems, can promise the earth knowing full well that at the moment they will not have to deliver. Some of their promises are much too expensive. So he has shown himself, or rather his party, to be just like all the others. Not that I had any doubt.

The only thing they have that is different is the EU. If the other parties, or one other party come to that, offers a referendum then the raison d'etre for UKIP has gone. Puff, smoke, then clear.

Cameron might well be on the way out. It seems more than possible. If he goes then a 1922 bod might replace him. This might well mean a referendum, or at least the promise of it.

The only policy of UKIP which interests the public is leaving the EU. If they see a vote for UKIP as a wasted vote and another party offers a referendum then there is no point in voting for them. Hence the term one policy party.

Politicians are - now you might not believe this but I am assured it is true - devious. If they see a way of securing votes then they will go for it. The libdems saw a promise of no increase in student fees as a vote-catcher. I think it probably was. If UKIP gets a mention in the polls then . . . need I go on?

[12gauge]

turbobloke said:

Not that crumbling mouldy old chestnut again...in real reality, not so:

http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies

http://www.ukip.org/page/ukip-manifesto

Indeed. They were the only party I know about to even touch on the issue of banking in their manifesto.

You'd thing nothing happened 2007-09 reading the Labour and tory manifestos.

I just wish UKIP would be a little more daring and actually be libertarian instead of just saying they are.

[eharding]

12gauge said:

I wouldn't die or spent a life in jail for much, but to get our sovereignty back from the fascist creeps in Brussels i would.

Well, what's stopping you? Go and throw yourself under Van Rompuy's limo as he's razzing around Brussels in it. Same approach worked wonders for Emily Pankhurst.

Edited by eharding on Sunday 20th May 14:06

[Derek Smith]

Lost_BMW said:

Derek Smith said:

It is an obvious reaction to the problems of the Tories and the rise of UKIP, the latter in reality having just the one policy.

Not true.

Forgive me for saying so but merely gainsaying is not really much of an argument.

My suggestion is that if a major party, or even the libdems, promised to have a referendum on the EU then the majority of the votes for the UKIP would disappear. That makes the UKIP in reality a one policy party.

I'm happy to be proved wrong but I can't see many people deserting the major parties because the UKIP offers to double the number of prison places without a sensible method of paying for it. Or getting rid of Trident. Or to hold county wide votes on the hunting ban.

[Jasandjules]

No, you see, if the Libdems, Labour or Tories say they will have a referendum on the EU, we know they are lying about it and have no intention of doing so. But when UKIP say it..........

[Derek Smith]

Jasandjules said:

No, you see, if the Libdems, Labour or Tories say they will have a referendum on the EU, we know they are lying about it and have no intention of doing so. But when UKIP say it..........

You believe a politician?

This goes against masses of evidence to the contrary.

They are unfortunately all the same. Once I get in power, or get a sniff of it the heady aroma forces them into a mould.

[AJS-]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18119242

Gathering some momentum now. Even the arch deacon of left wing smuggery and the world's oldest yaaang person has decided he's a Eurosceptc.

[wollowizard]

1. Labour primised this before but gordo the great knew better and snook off to sign the treaty.

2. I have always considered this to be CMD's trump card to be played when the time is right but MUST be before/during the next election but NOT after it.

[Mst007]

The Taxpayers Alliance and Institute of Directors have just gone public with a report that essentially recommends a major UKIP policy...30% flat tax replacing NI. It goes much further than the UKIP policy but its on the right track. Of course it will be shelved and filed under "will likely work but political suicide so dont even think about it"

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16232022

[Steve Zodiac]

Mst007 said:

The Taxpayers Alliance and Institute of Directors have just gone public with a report that essentially recommends a major UKIP policy...30% flat tax replacing NI. It goes much further than the UKIP policy but its on the right track. Of course it will be shelved and filed under "will likely work but political suicide so dont even think about it"

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16232022

I read that Sky article this morning, it all sounds a bit "If Carlsberg made tax policy......"
apart from this bit...

"Councils would see their grants from central government cut but would be given new powers to impose local income and sales taxes"

What could possibly go wrong??

Edited by Steve Zodiac on Monday 21st May 07:27