Discussion
Liokault said:
Ah, so what you are saying is that common use of hand guns for self defence (as my South African colleagues assures me is common practice, legal or otherwise) just causes an escalation in the fire arm of choice by the criminal? What should they do? Give assault weapons to motorists and watch the carjackers move on to flame throwers and mortars?
You made it sound like guns were handed out to combat carjacking, which I do not believe was the case. Seems the rules were tightened up, but as we know tightening rules only really affects those who abide by rules.I did not say that, not sure if that's a causation or correlation either. Assault weapons seem to have never been available to rule abiders. If rule breakers wanted access to greater firepower, they would get it.
Liokault said:
He has the "right" to remove access to something which can and will remove his "right" to life, at the cost of you losing your "right" to feel like a big man.
So then I have the right to remove access to a car for him? What about a kitchen knife? How about a ladder? BTW if everyone anti gun continually uses insults instead of rational arguments I think it's pretty clear that you have no actual legitimate basis for objecting.
Italy seems to have a good balance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Italy
All private firearms must be registered at the local police department within "72 hours", as specified by law, after purchase or transfer, although this limit goes from the time the firearm is actually taken to the place where it is to be registered (for example, the firearm may be bought at a time and withdrawn after a week from the retailer; only then the weapon will require the registration).
Citizens are allowed to own:
up to three common firearms (usually handguns, but all firearms not using hunting calibers fall into this category, such as 10-gauge shotguns, or some .22 rimfire rifles)
up to six weapons that have been specifically engineered and/or manufactured for shooting sports specifically recognized by an ordnance of the Ministry of Internal;
an unlimited number of hunting weapons (both rifles and shotguns);
up to eight antique or historical weapons (designed before 1891, regardless of when produced);
unlimited numbers of single shot muzzle loader replicas, for which no registration is needed;
unlimited numbers of airguns under 7,5 Joules of muzzle energy, specifically approved by the Ministry of Internal, which require no registration as well.
Trade and ownership of deactivated and replica (non firing) firearms is not regulated by law and is unrestricted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Italy
All private firearms must be registered at the local police department within "72 hours", as specified by law, after purchase or transfer, although this limit goes from the time the firearm is actually taken to the place where it is to be registered (for example, the firearm may be bought at a time and withdrawn after a week from the retailer; only then the weapon will require the registration).
Citizens are allowed to own:
up to three common firearms (usually handguns, but all firearms not using hunting calibers fall into this category, such as 10-gauge shotguns, or some .22 rimfire rifles)
up to six weapons that have been specifically engineered and/or manufactured for shooting sports specifically recognized by an ordnance of the Ministry of Internal;
an unlimited number of hunting weapons (both rifles and shotguns);
up to eight antique or historical weapons (designed before 1891, regardless of when produced);
unlimited numbers of single shot muzzle loader replicas, for which no registration is needed;
unlimited numbers of airguns under 7,5 Joules of muzzle energy, specifically approved by the Ministry of Internal, which require no registration as well.
Trade and ownership of deactivated and replica (non firing) firearms is not regulated by law and is unrestricted.
Jasandjules said:
So then I have the right to remove access to a car for him? What about a kitchen knife? How about a ladder?
BTW if everyone anti gun continually uses insults instead of rational arguments I think it's pretty clear that you have no actual legitimate basis for objecting.
I lol at your use of a ladder as an equivalent to a gun. Yes people do did "because" of ladders, but no one packs a ladder with the sole purpose of being able to kill a fellow human, nor has a ladder yet been developed with the sole function of killing human beings.BTW if everyone anti gun continually uses insults instead of rational arguments I think it's pretty clear that you have no actual legitimate basis for objecting.
Yes, people do die in connection with many inanimate objects other than guns, yet the gun is more or less the only one developed and carried for this specific purpose.
What are the arguments for a relaxation of our gun laws? We already have the right to own most things if properly licensed. You could certainly own something more than adequate for 'home defense' if you felt it necessary. One of my friends shoots in 'practical shotgun' competitions and owns a Saiga 12 for example.
Liokault said:
The sad thing is, you have probably been Fox News’d into thinking that they are hanging a British guy for eating his dinner with a totally illegal table knife.
That's what they want you to think.Check out the statistics on bank robberies with concealed ladders. I bet you can't even find any, because they cover it up. The ladder industry draws a lot of water in DC.
AJS- said:
Liokault said:
The sad thing is, you have probably been Fox News’d into thinking that they are hanging a British guy for eating his dinner with a totally illegal table knife.
That's what they want you to think.Check out the statistics on bank robberies with concealed ladders. I bet you can't even find any, because they cover it up. The ladder industry draws a lot of water in DC.
hairykrishna said:
What are the arguments for a relaxation of our gun laws? We already have the right to own most things if properly licensed. You could certainly own something more than adequate for 'home defense' if you felt it necessary. One of my friends shoots in 'practical shotgun' competitions and owns a Saiga 12 for example.
Careful with those American spellings HK! You can get into trouble with that sorta talk!Liokault said:
Defending yourself from other people who carry guns because you do.
Or knives, or baseball bats, or just because there are 10 of them and one of me.Again, by what authority do you suggest you have the right to dictate what I may and may not own?
Where is the line in the sand?
Halb said:
Careful with those American spellings HK! You can get into trouble with that sorta talk!
Curse my spell checker.
Jasandjules said:
Or knives, or baseball bats, or just because there are 10 of them and one of me.
Again, by what authority do you suggest you have the right to dictate what I may and may not own?
Where is the line in the sand?
'Where's the line' is the critical question. I suggest it's ok at the moment as most stuff is available with the appropriate licence and I can see sensible reasons for most of the outlawed stuff. How far do you propose the relaxation goes? Are we allowed machine guns? RPG's? Plutonium-239? (I'm actually not sure of the current legality of that last one!)Again, by what authority do you suggest you have the right to dictate what I may and may not own?
Where is the line in the sand?
JohnnyJones said:
But anyway for me the main reason we should be allowed to hold and carry a licenced gun is that the streets are awash with illegal ones.
The streets are awash with guns! So much so that despite living in London, I don't know anyone who has ever been the victim of gun crime, or been threatened with a gun. Most people go their entire lives without even encountering a gun.
Do you get some kind of vacarious thrill out of convincing yourself that you're living in the equivalent of East Central L.A. Personally, I think it's a bit sad, like these wannabe ganstas rapping about trying to escape from the ghetto, and it turns out they live in Chipping Norton!
f
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