Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
How do you know I'm not black? I don't want to get shot by anyone, be they black, white or any other hue.
Couldn't give a toss what colour you are. You are simply trying to deprive me, and people like me, of a reasonable defense of my life and my property by wanting guns outlawed.And whilst I'm trying to defend my house, I'll do my best not to accidentally shoot the wife. Mainly because it's one hell of a medical bill and she'll never let me forget 'the day that i shot her'
But guys - you are allowed to have a gun in the UK. A shot gun. We have a few and apart from good fun with clays and rough shooting they may come in handy agaisnt zombies and other undesirable home invaders. If you want a gun for zombies then you can legally get one or two or three and enough ammo to make a good dent in their numbers.
Its suprising quick to unlock a gun cabinet in the dark if you practice.
JD Roest - I wish were were allowed a consealed weapon like you are with a licence. But untill that day comes a full length 12g will have to suffice to act as true protection for my home untill the police can arrive. Not much choice if faced with a home intruder and a knife or two of them - It all well and good having sticks, 9 iron etc but I want to win the top trumps 'game' thank you very much - cos its not a game when your family is involved.
Its suprising quick to unlock a gun cabinet in the dark if you practice.
JD Roest - I wish were were allowed a consealed weapon like you are with a licence. But untill that day comes a full length 12g will have to suffice to act as true protection for my home untill the police can arrive. Not much choice if faced with a home intruder and a knife or two of them - It all well and good having sticks, 9 iron etc but I want to win the top trumps 'game' thank you very much - cos its not a game when your family is involved.
Edited by superlightr on Saturday 26th May 20:20
JDRoest said:
Go read up on it. You cannot compare US stats unless you take into account race.
Take out all the gangster 'respek' and gang shootings, and then have a discussion on meaningful statistics.
The counter argument would be that we have elements of that gang culture in the UK, only it more often ends in a beating or a stabbing rather than a shooting. Can still be fatal but far less likely, and usually requires a lot more personal commitment, if you see what I mean, than standing 30 feet away and shooting someone. Take out all the gangster 'respek' and gang shootings, and then have a discussion on meaningful statistics.
I don't necessarily agree with that, and I'm not anyway convinced that gangsters killing each other is a bad thing, but I can see some crude sense in which increasing the over all availability of guns will lead to an increase in the overall number of gun deaths.
Whether that makes you as an individual significantly more likely to be a victim of such is not nearly as clear. Guns are inanimate objects, and while I don't claim to be an expert, I know that a few basic safety procedures, most of them common sense anyway, reduce the chances of an accident to comfortably close to zero. And while being caught in the cross fire of some gangland shoot out is possible, it is lightening-strike rare and also somewhat avoidable.
However if you're the kind of person that stabs yourself, crashes your car and gets run over all the time at the moment, then you probably don't want to go mucking around with guns.
AJS- said:
I don't necessarily agree with that, and I'm not anyway convinced that gangsters killing each other is a bad thing, but I can see some crude sense in which increasing the over all availability of guns will lead to an increase in the overall number of gun deaths.
Ok, a question if I may.How does removing my ability in the UK to own a handgun (to protect myself) help me?
Because isn't that what matters at the end of the day? Me (and the family of course). What good does it do for me, if someone breaks into my house and murders my family and myself?
Unless someone has had some sort of Special Forces-type training and developed muscle memory from hundreds of hours on the shooting range, I defy anyone woken from a deep sleep at 3am to be able to bring a weapon to bear and be in the frame of mind to shoot someone within a split-second centre mass in their own home with other family members/pets present.
Edited by audidoody on Saturday 26th May 22:08
JDRoest said:
rohrl said:
JDRoest said:
Investigate the same statistics along race lines and you get a very different picture.
A very large proportion of gun crime is black on black. Remove that statistic and the average white American is no more likely to be involved in a gun death than the average Finn or Swiss.
How fascinating.A very large proportion of gun crime is black on black. Remove that statistic and the average white American is no more likely to be involved in a gun death than the average Finn or Swiss.
How is this in any way relevant to the discussion at hand?
Do your statistics include mixed-race Americans?
What, to you, constitutes "black"?
Is gun crime more closely aligned with skin colour or educational attainment?
Do you assign a direct causal link between melanin concentration and gun crime?
Take out all the gangster 'respek' and gang shootings, and then have a discussion on meaningful statistics.
audidoody said:
Unless someone has had some sort of Special Forces-type training and developed muscle memory from hundreds of hours on the shooting range, I defy anyone woken from a deep sleep at 3am to be able to bring a weapon to bear and be in the frame of mind to shoot someone within a split-second centre mass in their own home with other family members/pets present.
I think the thing to consider is that I would much rather be awoken at 3am, dazed but able to show the intruder a firearm then be utterly helpless and at their mercy. Just the fact that you can raise a gun at the intruder, and show them you have it, should show them enough to make them turn and run. In which case, you shouldn't need to shoot towards their centre mass! Edited by audidoody on Saturday 26th May 22:08
ETA - this is taking into account the use of a pistol rather than a shotgun. The risk of over penetration with pellets is clearly a huge reduction. Although, you could use hollowpoints and not be too worried about the bullet passing through the body.
audidoody said:
Unless someone has had some sort of Special Forces-type training and developed muscle memory from hundreds of hours on the shooting range, I defy anyone woken from a deep sleep at 3am to be able to bring a weapon to bear and be in the frame of mind to shoot someone within a split-second centre mass in their own home with other family members/pets present.
You're correct, just sit there and get shot while your wife or kids are raped; it is safer that way.Edited by audidoody on Saturday 26th May 22:08
audidoody said:
Unless someone has had some sort of Special Forces-type training and developed muscle memory from hundreds of hours on the shooting range, I defy anyone woken from a deep sleep at 3am to be able to bring a weapon to bear and be in the frame of mind to shoot someone within a split-second centre mass in their own home with other family members/pets present.
I just fecking despair sometimes. It's not gunfight at the OK Corral you muppet! It's hearing a burglar downstairs and being in a position to defend your family in the event that anyone approaches, that people are talking about.smegmore said:
Anybody who decided to take action and defend themselves against these scumbags would find themselves in a cell in short order. The police spout platitudes to the press and are useless in protecting the general public from this type of behaviour.
Welcome to Great Britain.
Really? If you're correct, i must be posting this form one Her Majesty's finest hotels, having utterly lost my rag with a bunch of scrotes who thought chucking stones at houses (including OAP bungalows) was good fun for the best part of 3 years.Welcome to Great Britain.
It came to a head one night with me pinning one of them to the ground (nice & muddy)in a very painful double armlock and a neighbour scattering the others with a very long spirit level.
Was there ever ANY suggestion of us being arrested? No. Has the area returned to the peace & quiet that we've had for a good 20 years? Yes. The Police were absolutely superb superb too, before anyone goes off on a standard PH anti Plod rant.
All it needs is for the decent majority to stop hiding behind their curtains and get off their arses and do something.
Jimbeaux said:
JDRoest said:
rohrl said:
JDRoest said:
Investigate the same statistics along race lines and you get a very different picture.
A very large proportion of gun crime is black on black. Remove that statistic and the average white American is no more likely to be involved in a gun death than the average Finn or Swiss.
How fascinating.A very large proportion of gun crime is black on black. Remove that statistic and the average white American is no more likely to be involved in a gun death than the average Finn or Swiss.
How is this in any way relevant to the discussion at hand?
Do your statistics include mixed-race Americans?
What, to you, constitutes "black"?
Is gun crime more closely aligned with skin colour or educational attainment?
Do you assign a direct causal link between melanin concentration and gun crime?
Take out all the gangster 'respek' and gang shootings, and then have a discussion on meaningful statistics.
superlightr said:
But guys - you are allowed to have a gun in the UK. A shot gun. We have a few and apart from good fun with clays and rough shooting they may come in handy agaisnt zombies and other undesirable home invaders. If you want a gun for zombies then you can legally get one or two or three and enough ammo to make a good dent in their numbers.
Its suprising quick to unlock a gun cabinet in the dark if you practice.
JD Roest - I wish were were allowed a consealed weapon like you are with a licence. But untill that day comes a full length 12g will have to suffice to act as true protection for my home untill the police can arrive. Not much choice if faced with a home intruder and a knife or two of them - It all well and good having sticks, 9 iron etc but I want to win the top trumps 'game' thank you very much - cos its not a game when your family is involved.
What a load of crap, if your woken by someone with a knife in your bedroom , what are you going to do , ask for a time out so you can unlock your gun cabinet and ' win the top trumps game'?Its suprising quick to unlock a gun cabinet in the dark if you practice.
JD Roest - I wish were were allowed a consealed weapon like you are with a licence. But untill that day comes a full length 12g will have to suffice to act as true protection for my home untill the police can arrive. Not much choice if faced with a home intruder and a knife or two of them - It all well and good having sticks, 9 iron etc but I want to win the top trumps 'game' thank you very much - cos its not a game when your family is involved.
Edited by superlightr on Saturday 26th May 20:20
JDRoest said:
How does removing my ability in the UK to own a handgun (to protect myself) help me?
Because isn't that what matters at the end of the day? Me (and the family of course).
No, what's important isn't you, it's me, and my family. I don't know if your a suitable person to own a gun. I don't trust the state to judge either, so probably best for me if you don't have one.Because isn't that what matters at the end of the day? Me (and the family of course).
jshell said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I'm no expert in this.
And that's not obvious by your predjudced and blinkered view based on the square root of f
k all knowledge, quite frankly. MrAdaam said:
I think the thing to consider is that I would much rather be awoken at 3am, dazed but able to show the intruder a firearm then be utterly helpless and at their mercy. Just the fact that you can raise a gun at the intruder, and show them you have it, should show them enough to make them turn and run. In which case, you shouldn't need to shoot towards their centre mass!
ETA - this is taking into account the use of a pistol rather than a shotgun. The risk of over penetration with pellets is clearly a huge reduction. Although, you could use hollowpoints and not be too worried about the bullet passing through the body.
If its just for show then keep a de-activated or replica one under the pillow. ETA - this is taking into account the use of a pistol rather than a shotgun. The risk of over penetration with pellets is clearly a huge reduction. Although, you could use hollowpoints and not be too worried about the bullet passing through the body.
That way you get to scare the intruder as desired without blowing your foot off or shooting your kid in the face.
The reality is that if someone hasn't the gumption to take on a home intruder bare handed they won't have the natural gumption to handle a firearm in such a heated situation.
jshell said:
I just fecking despair sometimes. It's not gunfight at the OK Corral you muppet! It's hearing a burglar downstairs and being in a position to defend your family in the event that anyone approaches, that people are talking about.
No burgled is going to head upstairs to where the family are asleep if the man of the hous is standing at the top. Simple as. Burglars are pussies they never want a physical confrontation. You hear one you stand blocking the only access to the important things in your life.
But the main key is to actually have proper security. Most people are burgled because they don't lock up properly or don't have proper locks.
Again like the movies give a false idea of firearms they also give the impression that burglars are above the amoeba level that they really are. The reality is that they are low functioning punters who work on lines of least resistance. Lock up well and think smart and they just aren't going to waste their time with you when there is a muppet down the way who has forgotten to lock their back door or left a window open.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
JDRoest said:
How does removing my ability in the UK to own a handgun (to protect myself) help me?
Because isn't that what matters at the end of the day? Me (and the family of course).
No, what's important isn't you, it's me, and my family. I don't know if your a suitable person to own a gun. I don't trust the state to judge either, so probably best for me if you don't have one.Because isn't that what matters at the end of the day? Me (and the family of course).
Why am I about to shoot you or your family? Do you think CCW holders wander round Walmart with their guns drawn?
rohrl said:
Is this universal and if so what is it about black people (still not had a definition of what constitutes black, and this is essential) that makes them so much more likely to kill people or be killed by guns?
Seriously, have a read up on race and gun crime in America. Stop asking stupid questions about what constitutes someone being black - as I think they've already made that definition in the US. This race thing in America - it's been going on a few years and I'm sure the definitions they use now are pretty accurate.JDRoest said:
Are you deliberately missing the point?
Why am I about to shoot you or your family? Do you think CCW holders wander round Walmart with their guns drawn?
That crackpot taxi driver in Carlisle, didn't he have a gun legally, after meeting all the criteria.Why am I about to shoot you or your family? Do you think CCW holders wander round Walmart with their guns drawn?
And the Dunblane loony. How do I know you're not just like them? How do you know I'm not? I don't want "normal" people have guns, because too many of them aren't normal at all.
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