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Du1point8
14,301 posts
61 months
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egyptian politics explained: 
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Jimbeaux
Original Poster
25,725 posts
100 months
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Countdown said: Jimbeaux said: Which begs the question; will the military turn over power to them if they win? It looks like trouble either way. We will soon see if they are anywhere near ready for the responsibility of Democracy. The military won't want to turn over power. What dictatorship willingly gives up power? The question is - can the MIB motivate enough support to make it impossible for the military to remain in power? With regards to being "ready for the responsibility for democracy" that is irrelevant. The same could be said if many other countries  It appears that the MB want to use Democracy as a tool to grab power with no intention of governing democratically. The military and the old regime members the same thing. They are f  ked either way. I would submit, however, that the MB version will be worse as it will make an "Iran" out of the area's largest nation.
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Countdown
6,340 posts
65 months
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Jimbeaux said: Countdown said: Jimbeaux said: Which begs the question; will the military turn over power to them if they win? It looks like trouble either way. We will soon see if they are anywhere near ready for the responsibility of Democracy. The military won't want to turn over power. What dictatorship willingly gives up power? The question is - can the MIB motivate enough support to make it impossible for the military to remain in power? With regards to being "ready for the responsibility for democracy" that is irrelevant. The same could be said if many other countries It appears that the MB want to use Democracy as a tool to grab power with no intention of governing democratically. The military and the old regime members the same thing. They are f ked either way. I would submit, however, that the MB version will be worse as it will make an "Iran" out of the area's largest nation. Without military backing it would be impossible for the MB to hold on to power illegitimately (my guess would be some kind of half-way house arrangement similar to Turkey). Regardless of the outcome it should be decided by the people of Egypt, not by anybody else. and certainly not by the imposition of a cabal that can be bribed into compliance. I fear the pro-Israel lobby are creating scare stories because what the Egyptian people want isn't what they want.
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Jimbeaux
Original Poster
25,725 posts
100 months
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Countdown said: Jimbeaux said: Countdown said: Jimbeaux said: Which begs the question; will the military turn over power to them if they win? It looks like trouble either way. We will soon see if they are anywhere near ready for the responsibility of Democracy. The military won't want to turn over power. What dictatorship willingly gives up power? The question is - can the MIB motivate enough support to make it impossible for the military to remain in power? With regards to being "ready for the responsibility for democracy" that is irrelevant. The same could be said if many other countries It appears that the MB want to use Democracy as a tool to grab power with no intention of governing democratically. The military and the old regime members the same thing. They are f ked either way. I would submit, however, that the MB version will be worse as it will make an "Iran" out of the area's largest nation. Without military backing it would be impossible for the MB to hold on to power illegitimately (my guess would be some kind of half-way house arrangement similar to Turkey). Regardless of the outcome it should be decided by the people of Egypt, not by anybody else. and certainly not by the imposition of a cabal that can be bribed into compliance. I fear the pro-Israel lobby are creating scare stories because what the Egyptian people want isn't what they want. I agree with you as to needing the Turkey model. However, I think you bringing up the Israel theory is a scare tactic in itself. Egypt and the parties at play need no help in scaring one another and genuinely f king things up. ETA: Have you seen the crowds in the street following the military's dissolution of Parliment?
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scenario8
2,771 posts
48 months
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Countdown
6,340 posts
65 months
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Jimbeaux said: I agree with you as to needing the Turkey model. However, I think you bringing up the Israel theory is a scare tactic in itself. Egypt and the parties at play need no help in scaring one another and genuinely f king things up. ETA: Have you seen the crowds in the street following the military's dissolution of Parliment? What do you regard as f king things up? On the one hand we have the remnants of a military dictatorship trying to cling on to power. On the other side we have a democratically elected party trying to implement its right to rule. Of course the dictatorship won't give up easily, they rarely do. So there's going to be a fair amount of upheaval. But let's not tar them with the same brush. But it should be a choice for the Egyptians themselves, not outsiders who would prefer a dictatorship just because they can be bribed into complicity. ETA Yes, I've seen the crowds. Your point is?
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Jimbeaux
Original Poster
25,725 posts
100 months
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Countdown said: Jimbeaux said: I agree with you as to needing the Turkey model. However, I think you bringing up the Israel theory is a scare tactic in itself. Egypt and the parties at play need no help in scaring one another and genuinely f king things up. ETA: Have you seen the crowds in the street following the military's dissolution of Parliment? What do you regard as f king things up? On the one hand we have the remnants of a military dictatorship trying to cling on to power. On the other side we have a democratically elected party trying to implement its right to rule. Of course the dictatorship won't give up easily, they rarely do. So there's going to be a fair amount of upheaval. But let's not tar them with the same brush. But it should be a choice for the Egyptians themselves, not outsiders who would prefer a dictatorship just because they can be bribed into complicity. ETA Yes, I've seen the crowds. Your point is? No point on the crowds, just a seperate mention. Agreed that they should choose for themselves. My point is that those elected democratically will not govern democratically IMO. They will install (eventually) an Iranian style theocratic dictatorship.
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s1962a
951 posts
31 months
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Jimbeaux said: Countdown said: Jimbeaux said: I agree with you as to needing the Turkey model. However, I think you bringing up the Israel theory is a scare tactic in itself. Egypt and the parties at play need no help in scaring one another and genuinely f king things up. ETA: Have you seen the crowds in the street following the military's dissolution of Parliment? What do you regard as f king things up? On the one hand we have the remnants of a military dictatorship trying to cling on to power. On the other side we have a democratically elected party trying to implement its right to rule. Of course the dictatorship won't give up easily, they rarely do. So there's going to be a fair amount of upheaval. But let's not tar them with the same brush. But it should be a choice for the Egyptians themselves, not outsiders who would prefer a dictatorship just because they can be bribed into complicity. ETA Yes, I've seen the crowds. Your point is? No point on the crowds, just a seperate mention. Agreed that they should choose for themselves. My point is that those elected democratically will not govern democratically IMO. They will install (eventually) an Iranian style theocratic dictatorship. Is it a condition of democracy that the ruling government abide by certain rules? Egypt has a decent literacy rate and if the majority have voted for a certain party, then so be it. Who are we to decide for them?
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Jimbeaux
Original Poster
25,725 posts
100 months
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s1962a said: Jimbeaux said: Countdown said: Jimbeaux said: I agree with you as to needing the Turkey model. However, I think you bringing up the Israel theory is a scare tactic in itself. Egypt and the parties at play need no help in scaring one another and genuinely f king things up. ETA: Have you seen the crowds in the street following the military's dissolution of Parliment? What do you regard as f king things up? On the one hand we have the remnants of a military dictatorship trying to cling on to power. On the other side we have a democratically elected party trying to implement its right to rule. Of course the dictatorship won't give up easily, they rarely do. So there's going to be a fair amount of upheaval. But let's not tar them with the same brush. But it should be a choice for the Egyptians themselves, not outsiders who would prefer a dictatorship just because they can be bribed into complicity. ETA Yes, I've seen the crowds. Your point is? No point on the crowds, just a seperate mention. Agreed that they should choose for themselves. My point is that those elected democratically will not govern democratically IMO. They will install (eventually) an Iranian style theocratic dictatorship. Is it a condition of democracy that the ruling government abide by certain rules? Egypt has a decent literacy rate and if the majority have voted for a certain party, then so be it. Who are we to decide for them? We are not to decide for them, I never said we should. I simply stated my opinion of what will happen. As to your first sentence, are you quite serious?
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s1962a
951 posts
31 months
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Jimbeaux said: s1962a said: Jimbeaux said: Countdown said: Jimbeaux said: I agree with you as to needing the Turkey model. However, I think you bringing up the Israel theory is a scare tactic in itself. Egypt and the parties at play need no help in scaring one another and genuinely f king things up. ETA: Have you seen the crowds in the street following the military's dissolution of Parliment? What do you regard as f king things up? On the one hand we have the remnants of a military dictatorship trying to cling on to power. On the other side we have a democratically elected party trying to implement its right to rule. Of course the dictatorship won't give up easily, they rarely do. So there's going to be a fair amount of upheaval. But let's not tar them with the same brush. But it should be a choice for the Egyptians themselves, not outsiders who would prefer a dictatorship just because they can be bribed into complicity. ETA Yes, I've seen the crowds. Your point is? No point on the crowds, just a seperate mention. Agreed that they should choose for themselves. My point is that those elected democratically will not govern democratically IMO. They will install (eventually) an Iranian style theocratic dictatorship. Is it a condition of democracy that the ruling government abide by certain rules? Egypt has a decent literacy rate and if the majority have voted for a certain party, then so be it. Who are we to decide for them? We are not to decide for them, I never said we should. I simply stated my opinion of what will happen. As to your first sentence, are you quite serious? ? Yes, are there some rules out there on who should be allowed to govern? Who decides?
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Jimbeaux
Original Poster
25,725 posts
100 months
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s1962a said: Jimbeaux said: s1962a said: Jimbeaux said: Countdown said: Jimbeaux said: I agree with you as to needing the Turkey model. However, I think you bringing up the Israel theory is a scare tactic in itself. Egypt and the parties at play need no help in scaring one another and genuinely f king things up. ETA: Have you seen the crowds in the street following the military's dissolution of Parliment? What do you regard as f king things up? On the one hand we have the remnants of a military dictatorship trying to cling on to power. On the other side we have a democratically elected party trying to implement its right to rule. Of course the dictatorship won't give up easily, they rarely do. So there's going to be a fair amount of upheaval. But let's not tar them with the same brush. But it should be a choice for the Egyptians themselves, not outsiders who would prefer a dictatorship just because they can be bribed into complicity. ETA Yes, I've seen the crowds. Your point is? No point on the crowds, just a seperate mention. Agreed that they should choose for themselves. My point is that those elected democratically will not govern democratically IMO. They will install (eventually) an Iranian style theocratic dictatorship. Is it a condition of democracy that the ruling government abide by certain rules? Egypt has a decent literacy rate and if the majority have voted for a certain party, then so be it. Who are we to decide for them? We are not to decide for them, I never said we should. I simply stated my opinion of what will happen. As to your first sentence, are you quite serious? ? Yes, are there some rules out there on who should be allowed to govern? Who decides? That was not my question. You stated: "Is it a condition of democracy that the ruling government abide by certain rules?" My question was do you really mean this? If it was a Democratic process that brought the ruling group in, then it is the people who should decide how they rule. You seem to imply that once in, the rulers should have no rules.
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scenario8
2,771 posts
48 months
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Brigand
944 posts
38 months
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The Election Commission chap didn't half drag his speech out didn't he!
Was nearly an hour of talking before he announced the winner.
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Apache
38,246 posts
153 months
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Regiment
1,565 posts
28 months
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Brigand said: The Election Commission chap didn't half drag his speech out didn't he!
Was nearly an hour of talking before he announced the winner. I can just imagine that the Muslim Brother supporters in the square were sharpening their knives and lighting their torches ready for the riots during the speech, just incase the wrong name was said at the end.
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Elroy Blue
5,682 posts
61 months
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MB President has declared 'God willing, Jerusalem will be the new Capitol'
This isn't going to end well.
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Jimbeaux
Original Poster
25,725 posts
100 months
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Elroy Blue said: MB President has declared 'God willing, Jerusalem will be the new Capitol'
This isn't going to end well. That is not inflaming at all, is it? 
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AndrewW-G
11,968 posts
86 months
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Elroy Blue said: MB President has declared 'God willing, Jerusalem will be the new Capitol'
This isn't going to end well. It's either iron age rhetoric, by a deluded goat herder, or the precursor to a war that will at best destroy the middle east, and at worst start WW III. Time for a whistle stop sightseeing tour of Egypt pre-Islamic cultural wonders. I feel very sorry for the people of Israel, who have worked so hard over the last 70 odd years to turn a desert into an oasis, who will be plagued by the jealous advances of their backwards neighbors.
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Regiment
1,565 posts
28 months
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Jimbeaux said: That is not inflaming at all, is it? It's a democracy, this is what 51% of Egypt want. The other 49%, looking at what a few of the Egyptian commentators are saying, absolutely hate the Muslim Brotherhood.
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Elroy Blue
5,682 posts
61 months
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Regiment said: It's a democracy, this is what 51% of Egypt want. The other 49%, looking at what a few of the Egyptian commentators are saying, absolutely hate the Muslim Brotherhood. It's a democracy where Christians were prevented from voting and the MB ensured that a significant number of candidates were prevented from standing.
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