Study: U.K. & U.S. Attitudes toward Service Personnel Differ
Discussion
I see multiple discussions about this on PH from time to time. Here is a recent study (this month). I tend to believe that UKers appreciate their service personnel equally but have a more reserved manner, thus appearing that they do not. What say you all?
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-resear...
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-resear...
Edited by Jimbeaux on Tuesday 29th May 20:57
I've had really good service in the US, but you pay for it tipping bloody everyone that comes your way which is fine (when in Rome and all that)
But the general feeling is people will not pay for good service (through tips)in the UK therefore you often don't get it, although it is in my experience not bad.
Wills2 said:
I've had really good service in the US, but you pay for it tipping bloody everyone that comes your way which is fine (when in Rome and all that)
But the general feeling is people will not pay for good service (through tips)in the UK therefore you often don't get it, although it is in my experience not bad.
I believe you misunderstood me Sir; I am referring to military service personnel, as stated in the article. But the general feeling is people will not pay for good service (through tips)in the UK therefore you often don't get it, although it is in my experience not bad.
Jimbeaux said:
Wills2 said:
I've had really good service in the US, but you pay for it tipping bloody everyone that comes your way which is fine (when in Rome and all that)
But the general feeling is people will not pay for good service (through tips)in the UK therefore you often don't get it, although it is in my experience not bad.
I believe you misunderstood me Sir; I am referring to military service personnel, as stated in the article. But the general feeling is people will not pay for good service (through tips)in the UK therefore you often don't get it, although it is in my experience not bad.
In answer to your Post, ahem, I would say we are more reserved I wouldn't go up to a service person and thank them without an introduction etc....
I might tip them though!
Edited by Wills2 on Tuesday 29th May 21:14
Wills2 said:
Jimbeaux said:
Wills2 said:
I've had really good service in the US, but you pay for it tipping bloody everyone that comes your way which is fine (when in Rome and all that)
But the general feeling is people will not pay for good service (through tips)in the UK therefore you often don't get it, although it is in my experience not bad.
I believe you misunderstood me Sir; I am referring to military service personnel, as stated in the article. But the general feeling is people will not pay for good service (through tips)in the UK therefore you often don't get it, although it is in my experience not bad.
Wills2 said:
I've had really good service in the US, but you pay for it tipping bloody everyone that comes your way which is fine (when in Rome and all that)
But the general feeling is people will not pay for good service (through tips)in the UK therefore you often don't get it, although it is in my experience not bad.
But the general feeling is people will not pay for good service (through tips)in the UK therefore you often don't get it, although it is in my experience not bad.
Not that actually reading what Jimbeaux had linked to would've saved your embarrassment or anything! Even the title of the article?
Meanwhile, getting back to the original point....
Rudyard Kipling said:
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
It was true then, and it's true now.The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
The US is still a relatively immature nation. One of the upsides of this is that Americans tend to have a very visible support for their service personnel. One of the downsides is that Americans are also generally happy beyond all bounds of sensible, rational thinking to see the US government sending said service personnel off to blow people up at the slightest excuse.
The UK, on the other hand, has done all of that, got the T shirt and then got a bit ashamed of itself for doing it, so we now seem collectively to feel that it's just not the done thing to be seen to be supporting the troops any more. If, however, we become the direct target of inbound aggression, then all of a sudden everyone loves a soldier!
Fortunately the people of Wootton Bassett showed time after time that the respect is often still there when it really matters, and whilst pretty much everyone on here should've heard of Wootton Bassett, far fewer have probably heard of Carterton in Oxfordshire. Carterton has taken over as the first place through which repatriated soldiers' coffins are driven since the repatriation flights moved from RAF Lyneham to RAF Brize Norton. It would seem that Carterton intends to pick up where Wootton Bassett left off.
Article said:
One third of Americans have approached military personnel to thank them for their service.....
Ahem, 40 years ago they would approach and scream 'baby killer' in their faces. According to certain magazines, news broadcasts and movies of the era."And the times they are a changing'" as somebody once said.
King Herald said:
Article said:
One third of Americans have approached military personnel to thank them for their service.....
Ahem, 40 years ago they would approach and scream 'baby killer' in their faces. According to certain magazines, news broadcasts and movies of the era."And the times they are a changing'" as somebody once said.
as someone from a military family that's lived both sides of the atlantic i think there are a number of reasons;
the relative popularity of iraq/afganistan
a collective US guilt for the treatment of vietnam vets cemented by 20 years of movies
british reserve: i'd feel a complete and utter weirdo thanking someone i didn't know for their service, something i've seen several times in the us. a us sheriff once even saluted and thanked my dad after pulling us over for speeding years ago. thats just not british
and lastly if you were inclined to say thanks you'd struggle: you very rarely see brits in uniform in public. certainly it used to be banned, due to the danger from pira. i see US soldiers in desert camo in airports all the time; they normally get prefered boarding, nice touch.
the relative popularity of iraq/afganistan
a collective US guilt for the treatment of vietnam vets cemented by 20 years of movies
british reserve: i'd feel a complete and utter weirdo thanking someone i didn't know for their service, something i've seen several times in the us. a us sheriff once even saluted and thanked my dad after pulling us over for speeding years ago. thats just not british
and lastly if you were inclined to say thanks you'd struggle: you very rarely see brits in uniform in public. certainly it used to be banned, due to the danger from pira. i see US soldiers in desert camo in airports all the time; they normally get prefered boarding, nice touch.
Americans are much more "Whoop!" and "Holla!", and we are much more reserved and, IMO, more cynical.
Take Man Vs Food. In all his challenges the diners in the background get very into it, cheering, whooping, taking a great interest etc. I think over here most people would mutter under their breath that he was an annoying loud person interrupting their meal.
Take Man Vs Food. In all his challenges the diners in the background get very into it, cheering, whooping, taking a great interest etc. I think over here most people would mutter under their breath that he was an annoying loud person interrupting their meal.
fbrs said:
you very rarely see brits in uniform in public. certainly it used to be banned, due to the danger from pira. i see US soldiers in desert camo in airports all the time; they normally get prefered boarding, nice touch.
This seems to be a factor - British military are not in the habit of wearing uniform off base, so not so easy to identify, even if you wanted to! I have seen the respect for the military in the US second hand - some years back I was travelling to the US with some British military (in civies - but with a couple of visible clues) - when this was spotted at the immigration queue, we were invited to jump the queue by switching to the now cleared 'US citizen' side of the hall and get through a lot quicker. As I recall, the question was 'you guys NATO?'
Regarding general attitude to service personnel - difficult to say; I've always lived and worked in areas where there are a lot of service personnel, so to me it is automatic, but can't say for big cities or areas without service influences if that would be the same.
I went to get my hair cut last week and a lady, who appeared to be in her 50s, stopped and told me and my mate next to me that "we do a great job, I don't believe all that negative press".
Random, first time it's happened to me in nearly 8 years.
I think as well as people feeling awkward thanking service personnel in the UK, there's also that as a service person you'd feel awkward being thanked. Nobody asked us to do the job, we volunteered, we don't need the sympathy or anything.
Even though we speak the same(ish) language as our septic friends our cultures are quite different.
Random, first time it's happened to me in nearly 8 years.
I think as well as people feeling awkward thanking service personnel in the UK, there's also that as a service person you'd feel awkward being thanked. Nobody asked us to do the job, we volunteered, we don't need the sympathy or anything.
Even though we speak the same(ish) language as our septic friends our cultures are quite different.
The British are just more reserved than the Americans, which is sometimes misunderstood as us not having the feelings that might be more overtly displayed in the US.
There is also the fact that the recent adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan have not been universally popular, though Afghanistan is more well supported than Iraq. This is down to the lies and evasions of the politicians though more than the military itself. I think most British people appreciate our servicemen and women and understand that they go where they're told to and do a hard job.
I don't personally like the labelling of all military personnel as heroes and I say that as the son and grandson of an army Colonel and a Naval CPO. Most aren't heroes, just ordinary people doing what is, at times, an extraordinary job. Once in a while a situation arises in which great bravery and indeed heroism is required but it's not an eveyday thing and I can imagine that it might be a bit embarrassing to be labelled a hero if you don't feel it's warranted.
There is also the fact that the recent adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan have not been universally popular, though Afghanistan is more well supported than Iraq. This is down to the lies and evasions of the politicians though more than the military itself. I think most British people appreciate our servicemen and women and understand that they go where they're told to and do a hard job.
I don't personally like the labelling of all military personnel as heroes and I say that as the son and grandson of an army Colonel and a Naval CPO. Most aren't heroes, just ordinary people doing what is, at times, an extraordinary job. Once in a while a situation arises in which great bravery and indeed heroism is required but it's not an eveyday thing and I can imagine that it might be a bit embarrassing to be labelled a hero if you don't feel it's warranted.
I was in a domestic airport departure lounge in Phoenix last year when an inbound flight full of US military personnel disembarked at one of the gates, not sure where the flight came in from, but the entire lounge (mostly outbound passengers like me) stood and clapped as the personnel moved through.
It was close to the anniversary of 9/11, but even so I cannot imagine anything like that ever happening in the UK.
It was close to the anniversary of 9/11, but even so I cannot imagine anything like that ever happening in the UK.
youngsyr said:
I was in a domestic airport departure lounge in Phoenix last year when an inbound flight full of US military personnel disembarked at one of the gates, not sure where the flight came in from, but the entire lounge (mostly outbound passengers like me) stood and clapped as the personnel moved through.
The medic on my ship was a combat medic in Iraq for 18 months, working with USMC. She had the same clapping thing happen several times as she passed through US airports. 'Embarrassing' was her opinion. Her colleagues and fellow marines agreed, they are just people doing their job, wanting to either go home, or go to war, and they don't really want the rousing applause, no matter how well intended.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff