Julian Assange loses extradition appeal at Supreme Court

[anonymous-user]

Lucid and sane as ever from Foppo (and well done for inferring that "Swedish girls are easy" - Very classy!). If the US wanted Assange, it has a far closer relationship with the UK than it does with Sweden. If you are the evil Uncle Sam, why have a complex multi step plan when you can just keep it simple and apply for extradition from the UK to the US?

[SamHH]

Foppo said:

The Swedes will send him to the States as soon he sets foot there.

Is that your reason for why "the rape charge is a set up"?

That seems very tenuous, don't you think?

[anonymous-user]

I wonder how closely the embassy is being policed/watched?

It amazed me that he hasn't actually left the place via the use of heavy disguise/make up/fat-suit or whatever, and then taken residence in a secret cottage/farm or something far away from London while he plots he next move in less cramped conditions.

But then again, if the police are checking everyone who comes out of the Ecuador embassy very carefully then he doesn't really stand a chance.

[phil1979]

Makes you wonder in which embassy Mr Blobby is hiding....

[Beati Dogu]

NinjaPower said:

I wonder how closely the embassy is being policed/watched?

I hope they've searched through his dirty laundry hampers, It's something that pasty faced creep can relate to.

[Finlandia]

SamHH said:

Foppo said:

The rape charge is a set up in my opinion always has been.

Why do you think that?

Because in Sweden, as a rapist you are not likely to get punished or jailed, not even necessarily for gang rape. Sweden has one of the highest rape rates in Europe and one of the lowest solved rates, and only 25% of all rapes are reported (according to studies).

Recently there have been many high profile rape cases where the rapist(s) have been freed for the most bizarre reasons eg. even if the victim said no how could the rapist know it meant no, not fighting back hard enough against 7 or 8 men, a sex seller cannot be gang raped, bleeding only a little (from being raped with a bottle) and so on.

Why chase a man half way around Europe for years on end after a very shaky rape allegation that has already been dropped once? Especially as real rape doesn't get punished?

[Soov535]

Finlandia said:

SamHH said:

Foppo said:

The rape charge is a set up in my opinion always has been.

Why do you think that?

Because in Sweden, as a rapist you are not likely to get punished or jailed, not even necessarily for gang rape. Sweden has one of the highest rape rates in Europe and one of the lowest solved rates, and only 25% of all rapes are reported (according to studies).

Recently there have been many high profile rape cases where the rapist(s) have been freed for the most bizarre reasons eg. even if the victim said no how could the rapist know it meant no, not fighting back hard enough against 7 or 8 men, a sex seller cannot be gang raped, bleeding only a little (from being raped with a bottle) and so on.

Why chase a man half way around Europe for years on end after a very shaky rape allegation that has already been dropped once? Especially as real rape doesn't get punished?

Because once he is in Sweden he can easily be rendered to the US, that's why.

[SamHH]

Finlandia said:

Because in Sweden, as a rapist you are not likely to get punished or jailed, not even necessarily for gang rape. Sweden has one of the highest rape rates in Europe and one of the lowest solved rates, and only 25% of all rapes are reported (according to studies).

Recently there have been many high profile rape cases where the rapist(s) have been freed for the most bizarre reasons eg. even if the victim said no how could the rapist know it meant no, not fighting back hard enough against 7 or 8 men, a sex seller cannot be gang raped, bleeding only a little (from being raped with a bottle) and so on.

Why chase a man half way around Europe for years on end after a very shaky rape allegation that has already been dropped once? Especially as real rape doesn't get punished?

Distilled, your argument seems to be that because rape has a poor conviciton rate in Sweden (as it does in the UK), this allegation must be a "set up". Nothing you wrote suggests that it is unlikely that the allegations against Assange are genuine, and are being investigated in good faith. At worst, it suggests that Assange's fame has led to a more thorough investigation than is the lamentably poor norm.

What do the distance between Assange's location and Sweden and the length of time that he has been sought by the Swedish authorities have to do with anything? Surely you don't suggest those are reasons to drop a prosecution?

Edited by SamHH on Monday 18th August 17:14

Edited by SamHH on Monday 18th August 17:15

[anonymous-user]

Soov535 said:

Because once he is in Sweden he can easily be rendered to the US, that's why.

That's the daft bit of the argument. Name the country that is the number one ally and willing helper of the US. A clue: it has an acronym that begins with U and ends with K. Conspiracy theories usually fall down because they have too many needless steps in them. If you are an evil superpower, why do something the hard way when you could do it the easy way?

[BlackLabel]

What do Ecuador get out of all of this? I'm surprised they don't just kick him out. It's not as if he's been threatened with deportation to some 3rd world sthole where he'll be tortured and killed - it's only Sweden. If the rape charges are so weak then go and fight them.

I'm not sure I buy the whole 'it's easier to deport him from Sweden to the USA than it was from Britain to the USA' argument either.

If the Americans really wanted him they could have had us extradite him before he got the Ecuadorian embassy.

Edited by BlackLabel on Monday 18th August 17:19

[anonymous-user]

Also, Finlandia's bald figures may call for some examination.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372

[SamHH]

Soov535 said:

Because once he is in Sweden he can easily be rendered to the US, that's why.

Serious question: I read that in the scenario Foppo mentioned Sweden would be obligated by EU law ( 2002/584/JHA art 28(4)) to get permission from the UK government to extradite Assange to the US, and that the UK government would have to follow a similar procedure to if the US had requested his extradition from the UK ( Extradition Act 2003, s 58). Is that correct, and if so, doesn't it make it more difficult for Assange to be extratided from Sweden to the US, two states (Sweden and the UK) having to give their permission?

[anonymous-user]

Precisely so, but the conspiracy loons will never let such trifles as facts and reason get in the way of their theories.

[Finlandia]

Breadvan72 said:

Also, Finlandia's bald figures may call for some examination.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372

According to Brå (Bråttsförebyggande rådet) the actual figure of rapes in Sweden is 36,000 per year. The reported figure is around 6,000 of which less than 200 end up in a conviction.
According to a study conducted by Liz Kelly (Professor at Metropolitan University in London) only 2% of the reported rapes are false allegations.

[anonymous-user]

Hey, who needs a legal system with trials and evidence and stuff when you can rely on a report by an academic at a very un famous university?

I add that under reporting and under conviction in rape cases are real and serious problems, but I am not sure that source is the strongest basis for an argument.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 18th August 18:44

[Roverload]

I'm torn on Asange, a lot of what he did was right, but an awe full lot was wrong, yes he released various governments dirty secrets but at the cost of a young mans life, he used Bradley manning, he knew he was weak and could be manipulated and then he left him to rot, quite possibly forever.

[Finlandia]

Breadvan72 said:

Hey, who needs a legal system with trials and evidence and stuff when you can rely on a report by an academic at a very un famous university?

I add that under reporting and under conviction in rape cases are real and serious problems, but I am not sure that source is the strongest basis for an argument.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Monday 18th August 18:44

If you asked me, I trust that academic from the un-famous university more than I trust a legal system that thinks a rape victim should have fought harder against 7 guys, or that another victim didn't bleed enough.

[anonymous-user]

Appalling indeed. Do you have links to the news coverage? Swedish fine thanks to Google translate.

[Borghetto]

Finlandia said:

If you asked me, I trust that academic from the un-famous university more than I trust a legal system that thinks a rape victim should have fought harder against 7 guys, or that another victim didn't bleed enough.

I seem to remember the un-famous university used to be called Holloway Poly and is festooned with Nobel Laureates and bloody handy for Holloway Prison.

[Finlandia]

SamHH said:

Finlandia said:

Because in Sweden, as a rapist you are not likely to get punished or jailed, not even necessarily for gang rape. Sweden has one of the highest rape rates in Europe and one of the lowest solved rates, and only 25% of all rapes are reported (according to studies).

Recently there have been many high profile rape cases where the rapist(s) have been freed for the most bizarre reasons eg. even if the victim said no how could the rapist know it meant no, not fighting back hard enough against 7 or 8 men, a sex seller cannot be gang raped, bleeding only a little (from being raped with a bottle) and so on.

Why chase a man half way around Europe for years on end after a very shaky rape allegation that has already been dropped once? Especially as real rape doesn't get punished?

Distilled, your argument seems to be that because rape has a poor conviciton rate in Sweden (as it does in the UK), this allegation must be a "set up". Nothing you wrote suggests that it is unlikely that the allegations against Assange are genuine, and are being investigated in good faith. At worst, it suggests that Assange's fame has led to a more thorough investigation than is the lamentably poor norm.

What do the distance between Assange's location and Sweden and the length of time that he has been sought by the Swedish authorities have to do with anything? Surely you don't suggest those are reasons to drop a prosecution?

Edited by SamHH on Monday 18th August 17:14

Edited by SamHH on Monday 18th August 17:15

Without going too deep into it, it's all political, to do with leaked documents by JA which put Swedish politics in a bad light (not necessarily internationally, but in Sweden it created quite a storm).

JA stayed with one of the victims on his visit to Sweden, JA and the victim had sex several times during that time, but JA also had sex with another woman, when both women understood JA had been with them both they wanted JA to undergo a test for STDs (apparently with the help of the police), the police contacted the prosecutor who closed the case after investigating facts.
Then, the victims edited tweets and blogs after the incident, once another prosecutor had opened the case again, when politics got involved, most if not all officials in the case are politically active in one party, as are the victims, that's when the case got the highest priority.

It's all a bit too political to sound right.

As I have said on this thread before, I'm sure JA isn't the nicest of persons, and I really don't care too much what happens to him, but this is not just about a rape case.