Julian Assange loses extradition appeal at Supreme Court

[Martin4x4]

scherzkeks said:

Martin4x4 said:

In fact he has done so much damage to the FOI cause, I would not be surprised if it turned out he was running a false flag operation.

Really. How has he damaged FOI?

Really what is this thread about?

It has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter of any of the leaks.

[anonymous-user]

Assange lacks integrity. He has chosen not to make disclosures about Ecuador (a shady regime) because it has sheltered him in its London Embassy. He has also made such wide disclosures that, amongst the very salutary ones that promote open Government, are some that may prejudice properly confidential matters and even place lives at risk. He has acted without regard for the proposition that even a democracy has some legitimate secrets.

[Transmitter Man]

Breadvan72 said:

Assange lacks integrity. He has chosen not to make disclosures about Ecuador (a shady regime) because it has sheltered him in its London Embassy. He has also made such wide disclosures that, amongst the very salutary ones that promote open Government, are some that may prejudice properly confidential matters and even place lives at risk. He has acted without regard for the proposition that even a democracy has some legitimate secrets.

But supposed democracy's also have illegitimate secrets, rendition being just one off the top of my head. Here's another, our government but a few months ago voted 'against' allowing police & other officials the freedom to give evidence regarding the various child abuse enquiry's without the force of the OSA on them.

BV, this country I firmly believe is father away from open that you think.

Phil

[scherzkeks]

Martin4x4 said:

Really what is this thread about?

It has absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter of any of the leaks.

How has he damaged the FOI cause?

[anonymous-user]

Transmitter Man said:

Breadvan72 said:

Assange lacks integrity. He has chosen not to make disclosures about Ecuador (a shady regime) because it has sheltered him in its London Embassy. He has also made such wide disclosures that, amongst the very salutary ones that promote open Government, are some that may prejudice properly confidential matters and even place lives at risk. He has acted without regard for the proposition that even a democracy has some legitimate secrets.

But supposed democracy's also have illegitimate secrets, rendition being just one off the top of my head. Here's another, our government but a few months ago voted 'against' allowing police & other officials the freedom to give evidence regarding the various child abuse enquiry's without the force of the OSA on them.

BV, this country I firmly believe is father away from open that you think.

Phil

Guess what: I spent my formative years as a young lawyer working in a very junior role on the Spycatcher case for the newspapers, have done various secrecy cases since then, and nowadays do a lot of FOIA stuff, so I think that I know just a tiny bit about illegitimate state secrecy. I did not suggest that this country was sufficiently open in its Government (it is not), and I welcome much of what Wikileaks and Snowden have done, but they didn't know when to stop.

[anonymous-user]

scherzkeks said:

How has he damaged the FOI cause?

See above - he leaks selectively, protecting his pals, and leaks without regard for what may be legitimate democratic interests in maintaining some (not all, some) secrets.

[hairykrishna]

Are london coppers on ~£200 an hour? How on earth has it cost 12 million quid to make sure one bloke doesn't leave a building for 3 years?

[Beati Dogu]

hairykrishna said:

Are london coppers on ~£200 an hour? How on earth has it cost 12 million quid to make sure one bloke doesn't leave a building for 3 years?

£7M or so was for wages that would have been paid anyway. Although the police would obviously have been more use elsewhere. Another £3M for overtime (ditto) and the rest on meal deals from Harrods next door (maybe).

[scherzkeks]

Breadvan72 said:

See above - he leaks selectively, protecting his pals, and leaks without regard for what may be legitimate democratic interests in maintaining some (not all, some) secrets.

Your latter point may have some merit, but without a supporting example it's rather hollow.

[AJS-]

hairykrishna said:

Are london coppers on ~£200 an hour? How on earth has it cost 12 million quid to make sure one bloke doesn't leave a building for 3 years?

This is always the case with these things. I just don't get how they dream these numbers up.

There are 8,760 hours in a year, * 3 is 26,280. If you have two policemen there constantly it's 52,560 man hours, however you do the shifts. If they're on £25 an hour each that's only about £1.3 million. Even on double that it's nowhere close. And even if you hired them an armoured Range Rover (cooooool) at £1,000 a day for the whole 3 years that's only about another £1.1 million.

[AJS-]

Meanwhile just up the road

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/sep/2...

The same police force want to charge an art gallery £36,000 if they choose to exhibit art which might offend ISIS.

[Tonsko]

As above, suspect the £13m includes a wage bill that would have been paid anyway, and has been lumped in for PR purposes.

BV, I understand your position on Assange, and agree that he is a vainglorious man. However, I think that he enabled others to highlight important facts that otherwise would not have come out, and perhaps set the stage for Snowden. Do you feel that Snowden was a bit more circumspect?

[AJS-]

Wages for who though? If the average policeman earns say £40K it's like having 100 officers doing nothing else for 3 years.

[Tonsko]

Dunno. But it would be welcome for a complete breakdown of this figure to be analysed. Then we'd see what's what, and how much (admittedly probably a greater proportion of it) it actually did cost, compared to what it would have cost for those officers to carry out normal policing. Then you'd have a 'true' cost. It might actually be the whole figure. Perhaps Wikileaks can help with that.

[Andy Zarse]

The big boys are being nasty to poor Julian again...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wikileaks-files/11...

[rohrl]

Andy Zarse said:

The big boys are being nasty to poor Julian again...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wikileaks-files/11...

MRI on his shoulder? Sounds more a wking injury than anything legitimately life-threatening.

[Astacus]

It seems to me he is presented with a difficult moral tightrope to walk. He either publishes all the information he receives non selectively - and is open to criticism because he reveals stuff he shouldn't or, he is selective and is the. open to criticism that he is holding back stuff on personal political grounds.

I took the view that the guy is rather a pompous, self righteous attention seeker, whose views are more linked to a sort of moralistic preening.

But I have sufficient vestige of tinfoil hattery to believe that the accusations of sexual assault are not all they seem.

[Astacus]

It seems to me he is presented with a difficult moral tightrope to walk. He either publishes all the information he receives non selectively - and is open to criticism because he reveals stuff he shouldn't or, he is selective and is the. open to criticism that he is holding back stuff on personal political grounds.

I took the view that the guy is rather a pompous, self righteous attention seeker, whose views are more linked to a sort of moralistic preening.

But I have sufficient vestige of tinfoil hattery to believe that the accusations of sexual assault are not all they seem.

[scherzkeks]

Andy Zarse said:

scherzkeks said:

Andy Zarse said:

You know this how?

Because the authorities sat on their hands rather than question him. If the case had anything of substance to it, they would have simply interviewed him and proceeded from there.

Baloney.

Yes, logic is difficult to argue against.

[SamHH]

scherzkeks said:

Yes, logic is difficult to argue against.

Not questioning Assange in the UK is no more logically consistent with the allegations against him being a ruse than it is with those allegations being bona fide, is it?

Edited by SamHH on Friday 16th October 01:02