Julian Assange loses extradition appeal at Supreme Court
Discussion
If you recklessly leak dishonestly obtained docs putting lives at risk perhaps you should expect to face consequences?
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/28/us-e...
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/28/us-e...
Very.irc said:
If you recklessly leak dishonestly obtained docs putting lives at risk perhaps you should expect to face consequences?
.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/28/us-e...
This..
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/28/us-e...
There was no journaliam going on here, it was just mass publishing of 'secrets' without any thought as to what the impact might be. Nobody else mattered as long as Assange got the reflected glory of other people taking the risk of stealing government documents.
tangerine_sedge said:
irc said:
If you recklessly leak dishonestly obtained docs putting lives at risk perhaps you should expect to face consequences?
.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/28/us-e...
This..
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/28/us-e...
There was no journaliam going on here, it was just mass publishing of 'secrets' without any thought as to what the impact might be. Nobody else mattered as long as Assange got the reflected glory of other people taking the risk of stealing government documents.
Where were the prosecutions for those who published Edward Snowdens' leaks? Arguably the impact of those was far higher.
The over-reach (as usual) of the USA deciding they have global jurisdiction is also a factor here. Unless the US is prepared too extradite its citizens to face similar charges elsewhere then the whole thing stinks.
Doesn't make Assange a nice guy, or someone I inherently support. But, not, I don't think he should be extradited.
McGee_22 said:
105.4 said:
It’s interesting to note which prolific posters view Assange as a hero, and which ones view him as a villain.
The answer comes as no surprise to me.
I'll play this game - what do I think of him?The answer comes as no surprise to me.
And considering that my opinion, as always, is worth less than half a packet of crisps and a conker, it’s irrelevant anyway.
105.4 said:
McGee_22 said:
105.4 said:
It’s interesting to note which prolific posters view Assange as a hero, and which ones view him as a villain.
The answer comes as no surprise to me.
I'll play this game - what do I think of him?The answer comes as no surprise to me.
And considering that my opinion, as always, is worth less than half a packet of crisps and a conker, it’s irrelevant anyway.
Vanden Saab said:
105.4 said:
It’s interesting to note which prolific posters view Assange as a hero, and which ones view him as a villain.
The answer comes as no surprise to me.
It is amusing to see the same people who decry sending people to Rwanda cheering for this decision The answer comes as no surprise to me.
Stan the Bat said:
Vanden Saab said:
105.4 said:
It’s interesting to note which prolific posters view Assange as a hero, and which ones view him as a villain.
The answer comes as no surprise to me.
It is amusing to see the same people who decry sending people to Rwanda cheering for this decision The answer comes as no surprise to me.
skwdenyer said:
tangerine_sedge said:
irc said:
If you recklessly leak dishonestly obtained docs putting lives at risk perhaps you should expect to face consequences?
.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/28/us-e...
This..
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/nov/28/us-e...
There was no journaliam going on here, it was just mass publishing of 'secrets' without any thought as to what the impact might be. Nobody else mattered as long as Assange got the reflected glory of other people taking the risk of stealing government documents.
Where were the prosecutions for those who published Edward Snowdens' leaks? Arguably the impact of those was far higher.
The over-reach (as usual) of the USA deciding they have global jurisdiction is also a factor here. Unless the US is prepared too extradite its citizens to face similar charges elsewhere then the whole thing stinks.
Doesn't make Assange a nice guy, or someone I inherently support. But, not, I don't think he should be extradited.
I don't think there is any over-reach in the US wanting to take Assange to trial on hacking charges, a point that UK judges seem to agree on.
tangerine_sedge said:
If I understand correctly, Assange is charged with assisting Manning in 'hacking' US systems. Manning pleaded guilty to this during their court Martial and stated that Assange had provided help in cracking an admin password. Manning was a low skill/low clearance admin who needed help to crack the password to get to the interesting 'stuff'. Manning had the physical access and Assange had the hacking tools/knowledge.
I don't think there is any over-reach in the US wanting to take Assange to trial on hacking charges, a point that UK judges seem to agree on.
Interesting. I wasn't aware that Assange allegedly helped hack the system. Looks to scupper the journalism defence.I don't think there is any over-reach in the US wanting to take Assange to trial on hacking charges, a point that UK judges seem to agree on.
"David Miller, a former federal prosecutor in New York and Virginia, said Assange’s defense would likely face “an uphill battle” assuming the government’s proof of communications and contacts with Manning is strong.
Prosecutors will emphasize that cracking a password is far outside the realm of what respectable journalists do, Chesney at the University of Texas said.
“All of this turns on the idea that Assange tries to hack a password,” Chesney said. “That’s not journalism, that’s theft.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ecuador-assange...
tangerine_sedge said:
If I understand correctly, Assange is charged with assisting Manning in 'hacking' US systems. Manning pleaded guilty to this during their court Martial and stated that Assange had provided help in cracking an admin password. Manning was a low skill/low clearance admin who needed help to crack the password to get to the interesting 'stuff'. Manning had the physical access and Assange had the hacking tools/knowledge.
I don't think there is any over-reach in the US wanting to take Assange to trial on hacking charges, a point that UK judges seem to agree on.
What Manning pled guilty to is possibly moot - it was a plea deal; there was no opportunity to pick & choose. Perish the thought authorities would throw in a smoking gun with Assange’s name on it I don't think there is any over-reach in the US wanting to take Assange to trial on hacking charges, a point that UK judges seem to agree on.
irc said:
Interesting. I wasn't aware that Assange allegedly helped hack the system. Looks to scupper the journalism defence.
"David Miller, a former federal prosecutor in New York and Virginia, said Assange’s defense would likely face “an uphill battle” assuming the government’s proof of communications and contacts with Manning is strong.
Prosecutors will emphasize that cracking a password is far outside the realm of what respectable journalists do, Chesney at the University of Texas said.
“All of this turns on the idea that Assange tries to hack a password,” Chesney said. “That’s not journalism, that’s theft.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ecuador-assange...
I agree it is interesting."David Miller, a former federal prosecutor in New York and Virginia, said Assange’s defense would likely face “an uphill battle” assuming the government’s proof of communications and contacts with Manning is strong.
Prosecutors will emphasize that cracking a password is far outside the realm of what respectable journalists do, Chesney at the University of Texas said.
“All of this turns on the idea that Assange tries to hack a password,” Chesney said. “That’s not journalism, that’s theft.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ecuador-assange...
However I’d love to know how Assange can have “assisted” in respect of a military computer system he has no access to. You can’t “hack a password”. You can hack a system (but see my point above). You can try to crack a password file (if you have one with encrypted passwords in it - but where did that come from?).
Or did Assange say “try ABC123” and it worked? That’s hacking nothing.
I’m curious to see more of the actual case and evidence of this. Just stating it doesn’t make it so.
skwdenyer said:
tangerine_sedge said:
If I understand correctly, Assange is charged with assisting Manning in 'hacking' US systems. Manning pleaded guilty to this during their court Martial and stated that Assange had provided help in cracking an admin password. Manning was a low skill/low clearance admin who needed help to crack the password to get to the interesting 'stuff'. Manning had the physical access and Assange had the hacking tools/knowledge.
I don't think there is any over-reach in the US wanting to take Assange to trial on hacking charges, a point that UK judges seem to agree on.
What Manning pled guilty to is possibly moot - it was a plea deal; there was no opportunity to pick & choose. Perish the thought authorities would throw in a smoking gun with Assange’s name on it I don't think there is any over-reach in the US wanting to take Assange to trial on hacking charges, a point that UK judges seem to agree on.
tangerine_sedge said:
That's a possibility, but I think is reason enough for the US to ask for his extradition. Let's see where the evidence takes us...
Discussed in this article."Assange had offered to help Manning crack a password "hash," a form of scrambling designed to protect stored passwords from abuse. Hashing irreversibly converts a password into another string of characters, but hackers often use lists of pre-computed hashes from millions of passwords, known as rainbow tables, to search for a matching hash, revealing the hidden password.
In a pretrial hearing in Manning's case, prosecutors presented evidence that Manning had asked Assange—who was instant messaging with Manning under the name Nathaniel Frank—if he had experience cracking hashes. Assange allegedly responded that he possessed rainbow tables for that, and Manning sent him a hashed password string. According to Thursday's unsealed indictment, Assange followed up two days later asking for more information about the password, and writing that he'd had "no luck so far." "
https://www.wired.com/story/julian-assange-arrest-...
tangerine_sedge said:
This.
There was no journaliam going on here, it was just mass publishing of 'secrets' without any thought as to what the impact might be. Nobody else mattered as long as Assange got the reflected glory of other people taking the risk of stealing government documents.
If you read Breaking News by Rusbridger you'll get some insider information about how journalism acted in this case, especially with regards to The Guardian and other papers around the world. Left to Assange alone, it would have gone nowhere. There was no journaliam going on here, it was just mass publishing of 'secrets' without any thought as to what the impact might be. Nobody else mattered as long as Assange got the reflected glory of other people taking the risk of stealing government documents.
Journalism is all about finding sources, reviewing material, and then publishing that which is felt appropriate. The American papers, with their country's approach to free speech being a right, contrasts remarkably with the hoops the UK papers had to go through to publish their redacted copy.
He's an odd fish, this Assange. I can't figure out his motives, and Rusbridger seems to have the same problem.
The use of an allegation where the victims do not want to pursue the matter is corrupt. I've little sympathy for Assange, and many suggest that there's no evidence that the accusation is a put-up job, but not only due process but normal procedures should be followed and in normal circs this case would have been allowed to be filed in compliance with the victims' wishes.
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