Julian Assange loses extradition appeal at Supreme Court

Julian Assange loses extradition appeal at Supreme Court

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thinfourth2

32,414 posts

203 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
WhereamI said:
I haven't lived in Sweden but don't need to in order to understand one thing. Assange was in Sweden voluntarily. He wanted to be there for whatever reason and he applied for residency there.

Given that, why would they dream up a really bad plot to get him arrested for rape? They had him in what you think was the right environment to extract him whenever they wanted him, a quiet word to get them to give him residency and then wait a while for the fuss to die down, a knock on the door in the middle of the night, bundle him onto a plane and off to where ever they wanted. If you believe that they'd fake the rape allegation then surely you'd believe they'd do that - it makes a hell of a lot more sense yet it didn't happen, why not?

Or if they were going to dream up a rape so he could end up in a Swedish prison why not do it properly? As I said above, put him in a room with an attractive women, get a couple of 'witnesses' and they could have him banged up for rape with no problem at all so long as their stories added up. Why come up with such a convoluted story?
Of course you could argue that all of the above would need some planning, forethought and a small pinch of competence.

So using the same argument I use against many other conspiracy theories that a government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. I could actually see this as a half arsed scheme to get him to america.

WhereamI

6,887 posts

216 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
thinfourth2 said:
WhereamI said:
I haven't lived in Sweden but don't need to in order to understand one thing. Assange was in Sweden voluntarily. He wanted to be there for whatever reason and he applied for residency there.

Given that, why would they dream up a really bad plot to get him arrested for rape? They had him in what you think was the right environment to extract him whenever they wanted him, a quiet word to get them to give him residency and then wait a while for the fuss to die down, a knock on the door in the middle of the night, bundle him onto a plane and off to where ever they wanted. If you believe that they'd fake the rape allegation then surely you'd believe they'd do that - it makes a hell of a lot more sense yet it didn't happen, why not?

Or if they were going to dream up a rape so he could end up in a Swedish prison why not do it properly? As I said above, put him in a room with an attractive women, get a couple of 'witnesses' and they could have him banged up for rape with no problem at all so long as their stories added up. Why come up with such a convoluted story?
Of course you could argue that all of the above would need some planning, forethought and a small pinch of competence.

So using the same argument I use against many other conspiracy theories that a government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. I could actually see this as a half arsed scheme to get him to america.
But surely for the existing situation to be a conspiracy it would require considerably more planning and forethought. My first scenario requires nothing much at all, just leave him until they are ready then go and get him either in a clandestine way or by having him arrested and extradited.

The second scenario is more complex but still a lot less so than where we are. The only credible case for us being where we are is that nobody planned it, you just wouldn't plan the allegations this way unless they were having a competition to come up with the messiest and least likely to work conspiracy.

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
Blib said:
That's my best guess.

You?
That's my guess too.

thinfourth2

32,414 posts

203 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
WhereamI said:
thinfourth2 said:
WhereamI said:
I haven't lived in Sweden but don't need to in order to understand one thing. Assange was in Sweden voluntarily. He wanted to be there for whatever reason and he applied for residency there.

Given that, why would they dream up a really bad plot to get him arrested for rape? They had him in what you think was the right environment to extract him whenever they wanted him, a quiet word to get them to give him residency and then wait a while for the fuss to die down, a knock on the door in the middle of the night, bundle him onto a plane and off to where ever they wanted. If you believe that they'd fake the rape allegation then surely you'd believe they'd do that - it makes a hell of a lot more sense yet it didn't happen, why not?

Or if they were going to dream up a rape so he could end up in a Swedish prison why not do it properly? As I said above, put him in a room with an attractive women, get a couple of 'witnesses' and they could have him banged up for rape with no problem at all so long as their stories added up. Why come up with such a convoluted story?
Of course you could argue that all of the above would need some planning, forethought and a small pinch of competence.

So using the same argument I use against many other conspiracy theories that a government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. I could actually see this as a half arsed scheme to get him to america.
But surely for the existing situation to be a conspiracy it would require considerably more planning and forethought. My first scenario requires nothing much at all, just leave him until they are ready then go and get him either in a clandestine way or by having him arrested and extradited.

The second scenario is more complex but still a lot less so than where we are. The only credible case for us being where we are is that nobody planned it, you just wouldn't plan the allegations this way unless they were having a competition to come up with the messiest and least likely to work conspiracy.
So either its not a conspiracy and its a cock-up or it is a conspiracy and its a cock-up

I would belive either

SplatSpeed

7,490 posts

250 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
presently in sweden

Keep getting stopped by the fascist police.

for the henious crime of :-

Driving an E Class in a Muslim area, whilst sporting a beard!

they are a weird lot!

hairykrishna

13,159 posts

202 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
I can see it being someone taking advantage of an existing situation. The women lodge the rape charges independently and, probably at the point of them being dropped and reinstated, someone decides to push it as a favour to the US (prompted or not). Much less of a conspiracy required.

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
WhereamI said:
I haven't lived in Sweden but don't need to in order to understand one thing. Assange was in Sweden voluntarily. He wanted to be there for whatever reason and he applied for residency there.

Given that, why would they dream up a really bad plot to get him arrested for rape? They had him in what you think was the right environment to extract him whenever they wanted him, a quiet word to get them to give him residency and then wait a while for the fuss to die down, a knock on the door in the middle of the night, bundle him onto a plane and off to where ever they wanted. If you believe that they'd fake the rape allegation then surely you'd believe they'd do that - it makes a hell of a lot more sense yet it didn't happen, why not?

Or if they were going to dream up a rape so he could end up in a Swedish prison why not do it properly? As I said above, put him in a room with an attractive women, get a couple of 'witnesses' and they could have him banged up for rape with no problem at all so long as their stories added up. Why come up with such a convoluted story?
Maybe the original plan was to have him settle in Sweden and then change the laws so what he did with wikileaks was illegal here as well as in US, then he could be extradited legally? Then plan B had to be put in place, as things changed. All I know is that there are way too many political figures on this case for it to be a simple rape.

I'm sure JA is an arse in his own way, and I have no problem with what may await for him, but to see this as a simple and straight forward rape case is just naive.

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
SplatSpeed said:
presently in sweden

Keep getting stopped by the fascist police.

for the henious crime of :-

Driving an E Class in a Muslim area, whilst sporting a beard!

they are a weird lot!
Just don't park that E Class in Rosengård, they have a liking for sticking fancy cars alight there. wink

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
hairykrishna said:
I can see it being someone taking advantage of an existing situation. The women lodge the rape charges independently and, probably at the point of them being dropped and reinstated, someone decides to push it as a favour to the US (prompted or not). Much less of a conspiracy required.
They didn't even lodge for rape, but wanted JA to test for STDs, they were convinced to go for rape accusations by a political figure, but this is pretty much how I see it too, you just put it better in words than I have.

SplatSpeed

7,490 posts

250 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
Finlandia said:
SplatSpeed said:
presently in sweden

Keep getting stopped by the fascist police.

for the henious crime of :-

Driving an E Class in a Muslim area, whilst sporting a beard!

they are a weird lot!
Just don't park that E Class in Rosengård, they have a liking for sticking fancy cars alight there. wink
how did you know that is where i got stopped 3 times in a month!

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
SplatSpeed said:
how did you know that is where i got stopped 3 times in a month!
Lucky guess, or real life experience. hehe

SplatSpeed

7,490 posts

250 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
fancy a beer in fagans

friday night

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
SplatSpeed said:
fancy a beer in fagans

friday night
Sounds nice, but unfortunately I'm 615km North of Malmö.

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
TallbutBuxomly said:
In fact I think you will find the only ones ignoring anything would be all those on here who seem determined that assange should be sent to sweden when his legal team have stated the condom had none of his dna on it.

Whether thats true or not I dont know....
The only thing the naysayers are "overlooking" is that the US want him so badly they would come up with such a cunning plan to get hold of him (when, by all accounts, there are a million ways to achieve that end which are nowhere near as convoluted).

You do not know whether a statement from Assange's own legal team is true or not, but seem happy to use it in support of not sending him back to Sweden to face charges of rape. Does that not seem even slightly an odd stance to take?

Do you not think it serves his legal team very well to throw up every doubt and contrivance to discredit the case in order to get their client off what I'm sure we can all agree are serious charges (I know I wouldn't want to be known as a rapist).

I wonder whether you'd be so accommodating if it were your daughter making the allegations...

If he's done nothing wrong, if the evidence is so strong that he's innocent (the "not sure if it's factual" bit his legal team have published would suggest this perhaps? Then again, maybe it wouldn't), then he'll get off and be free to go.

For him to think he will be able to stop looking over his shoulder at some point after doing his wikileaks thing is foolish. It has nothing to do with these allegations against him though. And as mentioned, I would bet that the US aren't the main ones he should be afraid of. I doubt it's only the US govt his folly has pissed off, and I bet there are others who most definitely don't play by the rules.

Regardless, doing what he did with Wikileaks should not and does not put him above the law.

SplatSpeed

7,490 posts

250 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
Finlandia said:
SplatSpeed said:
fancy a beer in fagans

friday night
Sounds nice, but unfortunately I'm 615km North of Malmö.
allways wanted to go for a drive in norway

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
SplatSpeed said:
Finlandia said:
SplatSpeed said:
fancy a beer in fagans

friday night
Sounds nice, but unfortunately I'm 615km North of Malmö.
allways wanted to go for a drive in norway
North, not Norway. hehe
I'm sort of in the middle between Stockholm and Västerås.

SplatSpeed

7,490 posts

250 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
Finlandia said:
SplatSpeed said:
Finlandia said:
SplatSpeed said:
fancy a beer in fagans

friday night
Sounds nice, but unfortunately I'm 615km North of Malmö.
allways wanted to go for a drive in norway
North, not Norway. hehe
I'm sort of in the middle between Stockholm and Västerås.
thats north east

hehe

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
Sounds cold to me......

Tonsko

6,299 posts

214 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
thinfourth2 said:
So using the same argument I use against many other conspiracy theories that a government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. I could actually see this as a half arsed scheme to get him to america.
This and...

Finlandia said:
I'm sure JA is an arse in his own way, and I have no problem with what may await for him, but to see this as a simple and straight forward rape case is just naive.
This.

jshell

11,006 posts

204 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
SplatSpeed said:
Finlandia said:
SplatSpeed said:
fancy a beer in fagans

friday night
Sounds nice, but unfortunately I'm 615km North of Malmö.
allways wanted to go for a drive in norway
The Soviet Socialist Republic of Norway is an awful place to drive with low speed limits, huge speeding penalties, the developed world's spackiest driving and utterly, utterly shyte roads.