Julian Assange loses extradition appeal at Supreme Court
Discussion
Finlandia said:
If you asked me, I trust that academic from the un-famous university more than I trust a legal system that thinks a rape victim should have fought harder against 7 guys, or that another victim didn't bleed enough.
I trust that you have actual evidence to show that what you are saying is actually true and those were really the reasons why the accused were found not guilty?ajl.
Finlandia said:
True, or at least not too far off, but then, if one was to cook up a rape charge, where better to do it than in a country with a statistically very low false accusation rate?
But you were saying a few posts further back that these 'cooked-up' charges were in fact dreampt up by the Swedish because he had embarrased them. You suggested that they manipulated a situation which was reported to the police to be more serious than it was.Now, however, you seem to be saying that it was an international effort and that Sweden just happend to look handy at the time? Sweden is, then, in cahoots with other countries in this plan? Logically then, these two women are probably Swedish government agents or something?
ajl.
AJL308 said:
Finlandia said:
If you asked me, I trust that academic from the un-famous university more than I trust a legal system that thinks a rape victim should have fought harder against 7 guys, or that another victim didn't bleed enough.
I trust that you have actual evidence to show that what you are saying is actually true and those were really the reasons why the accused were found not guilty?ajl.
ETA, two pages back.
AJL308 said:
Finlandia said:
True, or at least not too far off, but then, if one was to cook up a rape charge, where better to do it than in a country with a statistically very low false accusation rate?
But you were saying a few posts further back that these 'cooked-up' charges were in fact dreampt up by the Swedish because he had embarrased them. You suggested that they manipulated a situation which was reported to the police to be more serious than it was.Now, however, you seem to be saying that it was an international effort and that Sweden just happend to look handy at the time? Sweden is, then, in cahoots with other countries in this plan? Logically then, these two women are probably Swedish government agents or something?
ajl.
Edited by Finlandia on Wednesday 20th August 17:59
AJL308 said:
Foppo said:
The rape charge is a set up in my opinion always has been.The Americans want him for treason.Bizarre case.
How can they want him for treason? He's not American.ajl.
The last person to be executed for treason in the UK ISTR was William Joyce (Lord Haw Haw) who was an Irish American.
The conviction of Joyce was highly controversial, legally questionable, and arguably represents victors' justice against a hated figure who had worked for the Nazis. The slender justification for the trial was that Joyce had been born a British subject.
EDIT. I was relying on weak memory. It was not birth, but later acquisition of a British passport that put Joyce in the frame.
EDIT. I was relying on weak memory. It was not birth, but later acquisition of a British passport that put Joyce in the frame.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 20th August 18:30
Riff Raff said:
Anyone could be charged with treason, irrespective of nationality. Why do you think that he'd need to be American to be so charged?
The last person to be executed for treason in the UK ISTR was William Joyce (Lord Haw Haw) who was an Irish American.
You need to be a citizen of the country which is accusing you, be under their protection or owe them allegiance in some way.The last person to be executed for treason in the UK ISTR was William Joyce (Lord Haw Haw) who was an Irish American.
William Joyce travelled from the UK on a British passport so was held to be under the protection of the Crown at the time that he made some of his broadcasts. Hence, he reasonably owed allegiance to the Crown. In addition, he was actively aiding an enemy of Britain in time of war.
None of the above remotely applies to Assange, as far as I'm aware. I can't see how a treason charge would fly against him.
ajl.
The conspiracy theorists like to ignore what the law says and assume that two or three nations will do likewise under the glare of publicity.
Rendition was unlawful. It was done covertly. Later on some legal redress was obtained by some victims.
In this case evil Uncle Sam is said to be behind a very public process. Bit of a blunder to do secret evil stuff that way.
Rendition was unlawful. It was done covertly. Later on some legal redress was obtained by some victims.
In this case evil Uncle Sam is said to be behind a very public process. Bit of a blunder to do secret evil stuff that way.
Breadvan72 said:
The conspiracy theorists like to ignore what the law says and assume that two or three nations will do likewise under the glare of publicity.
Rendition was unlawful. It was done covertly. Later on some legal redress was obtained by some victims.
In this case evil Uncle Sam is said to be behind a very public process. Bit of a blunder to do secret evil stuff that way.
Didn't Obama go to office having promised to end Guantanamo, still there it is unlawful as ever. Rendition was unlawful. It was done covertly. Later on some legal redress was obtained by some victims.
In this case evil Uncle Sam is said to be behind a very public process. Bit of a blunder to do secret evil stuff that way.
I have lost faith in justice and government, maybe rightfully.
If there was a conspiracy they would have used the rape charges to drive him from Sweden, hopefully to the UK, as happened, and then have him picked up and deported from here.
They would have then got him in the UK where it would be easiest to get him to the USA.
What stops this conspiracy being true is that the extradition back to Sweden, that would be counterproductive and show that the conspiracy makes no sense.
They would have then got him in the UK where it would be easiest to get him to the USA.
What stops this conspiracy being true is that the extradition back to Sweden, that would be counterproductive and show that the conspiracy makes no sense.
Yes; the so called conspiracy does the opposite of what it would do if it was real. Of course, Governments do sneaky and illegal stuff often, but they tend to keep it quiet until they get found out. The US, under a lot of media and legal pressure, has tried to introduce some elements of due process to Guantanamo. It all still sucks, and remains a blot on Obama's record.
Finlandia said:
The problem arose when the two women found out he had been with them both, presumably unprotected, which is silly of course.
When one reflects on the very laid back view on rape in the Swedish justice system (see my previous posts), one does wonder why JA is being chased so adamantly.
I tend to reflect the other way. He was perfectly happy to live in Sweden, with it's strange legal system, and even wanted to remain there. Until he was up on rape charges. When one reflects on the very laid back view on rape in the Swedish justice system (see my previous posts), one does wonder why JA is being chased so adamantly.
It doesn't matter how rape is defined there. If you go somewhere to live, you live by their rules.
I have absolutely no doubt that the law in every country is applied more harshly to some than others. It happens everywhere. It's not fair, but it's life (parents do it with kids ffs. It's no different). It's one of the reasons you take great care when poking the big dogs. If you have an ounce of intelligence.
On the conspiracy theories, wouldn't it be for more straightforward for the US to collude with Ecuador than the UK and Sweden?
Murph7355 said:
Finlandia said:
The problem arose when the two women found out he had been with them both, presumably unprotected, which is silly of course.
When one reflects on the very laid back view on rape in the Swedish justice system (see my previous posts), one does wonder why JA is being chased so adamantly.
I tend to reflect the other way. He was perfectly happy to live in Sweden, with it's strange legal system, and even wanted to remain there. Until he was up on rape charges. When one reflects on the very laid back view on rape in the Swedish justice system (see my previous posts), one does wonder why JA is being chased so adamantly.
It doesn't matter how rape is defined there. If you go somewhere to live, you live by their rules.
I have absolutely no doubt that the law in every country is applied more harshly to some than others. It happens everywhere. It's not fair, but it's life (parents do it with kids ffs. It's no different). It's one of the reasons you take great care when poking the big dogs. If you have an ounce of intelligence.
On the conspiracy theories, wouldn't it be for more straightforward for the US to collude with Ecuador than the UK and Sweden?
Sweden isn't the safe haven it once was for freedom of everything, JA probably wouldn't have settled for too long here.
The first prosecutor closed the case, so it's not a clear cut rape case, more a grey and very unclear area. Sweden makes a big fuss about the equality of all men in the eyes of the law and in the society, which makes it really odd to go through all that effort when far worse rapists and criminals aren't chased.
Ecuador probably isn't too keen on doing as US tells them.
Finlandia said:
A lot has changed in Sweden recently, two of the founders of piratebay are now in jail, the highly controversial FRA law was passed (a law that allows the state to record all internet, mobile and telephone services passing through Sweden), and a few more bits and bobs.
Sweden isn't the safe haven it once was for freedom of everything, JA probably wouldn't have settled for too long here.
The first prosecutor closed the case, so it's not a clear cut rape case, more a grey and very unclear area. Sweden makes a big fuss about the equality of all men in the eyes of the law and in the society, which makes it really odd to go through all that effort when far worse rapists and criminals aren't chased.
Ecuador probably isn't too keen on doing as US tells them.
Everything has consequences. Assange is finding that out on two fronts. Sweden isn't the safe haven it once was for freedom of everything, JA probably wouldn't have settled for too long here.
The first prosecutor closed the case, so it's not a clear cut rape case, more a grey and very unclear area. Sweden makes a big fuss about the equality of all men in the eyes of the law and in the society, which makes it really odd to go through all that effort when far worse rapists and criminals aren't chased.
Ecuador probably isn't too keen on doing as US tells them.
If he didn't want to be up on rape charges, he should have been more careful about where he put it.
And if he didn't want to be as welcome as the proverbial fart in an astronaut suit he should have been a bit more considered about wikileaks (naive on so many fronts) .
I have no doubt Ecuador likes to keep up a pretence of independence. Don't most countries. But it looks like their patience with their guest might be wearing thin. And money talks. I would imagine there are few places left Assange could rest easy that any normal person would want to live (personally Ecuador isn't high on that list either having been there).
Consequences...
Murph7355 said:
Everything has consequences. Assange is finding that out on two fronts.
If he didn't want to be up on rape charges, he should have been more careful about where he put it.
And if he didn't want to be as welcome as the proverbial fart in an astronaut suit he should have been a bit more considered about wikileaks (naive on so many fronts) .
I have no doubt Ecuador likes to keep up a pretence of independence. Don't most countries. But it looks like their patience with their guest might be wearing thin. And money talks. I would imagine there are few places left Assange could rest easy that any normal person would want to live (personally Ecuador isn't high on that list either having been there).
Consequences...
Again, I'm sure he isn't the nicest of humans and I really don't care what happens to him, but this is about more than a rape accusation.If he didn't want to be up on rape charges, he should have been more careful about where he put it.
And if he didn't want to be as welcome as the proverbial fart in an astronaut suit he should have been a bit more considered about wikileaks (naive on so many fronts) .
I have no doubt Ecuador likes to keep up a pretence of independence. Don't most countries. But it looks like their patience with their guest might be wearing thin. And money talks. I would imagine there are few places left Assange could rest easy that any normal person would want to live (personally Ecuador isn't high on that list either having been there).
Consequences...
Guess we will see what happens, in time.
Murph7355 said:
On the conspiracy theories, wouldn't it be for more straightforward for the US to collude with Ecuador than the UK and Sweden?
Ah, but if Assange and his organisation has something on Ecuador - or on those at the top in that country - in their encrypted 'insurance' files then that route is probably a non-starter.ajl.
<bump>
Looks like the allegations expire after 5 years in Sweden. Will he still be too scared to come out?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-ord...
Looks like the allegations expire after 5 years in Sweden. Will he still be too scared to come out?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-ord...
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