Discussion
TTmonkey said:
ewenm said:
TTmonkey said:
Do you own everything you have without any associated debt?
No car loans?
No credit cards?
No sttore cards?
No personal loans?
It all adds up rather fast. If you owe nothing, lucky you. I'd say you were the exception to the rule. Even on PH.
What's luck got to do with it?No car loans?
No credit cards?
No sttore cards?
No personal loans?
It all adds up rather fast. If you owe nothing, lucky you. I'd say you were the exception to the rule. Even on PH.
Either way it was said to him, not you.
From what I've seen on some of those TV shows (yes, I know, they must be true right?!?) I am surprised it is only 10k when you see people with two brand new cars and going on expensive holidays twice a year and then having 2 kids with all the clubs and such things. And having a brand new house.
AyBee said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
average student debt is 20k in Britain
4 years in uni has done that to me. Wierdly I don't really see it as debt though (even though I know it is), it just disappears from my pay packet each month - I could pay it off if I wanted to, I just prefer having the money for other things.What did amaze me when I was at university, though, was the way other students would rack up massive debts on things I'm not sure I could justify now, let alone then. So many of them had brand new cars, all the latest gadgets and computers, but what I found most staggering were the holidays. They'd run up four-figure sums on credit cards trotting off to Gapyearlandia every summer, just so they could come back with a suntan, some wooden jewellery and some even more unrealistic Left-wing opinions to impose on everyone, whereas I spent every summer holiday working so I could put the money aside and live off it during the next university term.
It's all part of an entitlement culture which seems to start with marketing induced 'I want!' tantrums as kids. When these demands are appeased without question, the kids grow up feeling they are entitled to absolutely everything they want. By the time they're 19, this can mean the kind of exotic holiday my parents would associate with a one-off taken at retirement EVERY YEAR, a brand-new car, a new phone every year, a new computer every year, designer-label clothes and enough money to go to the kinds of bars where nothing on the cocktail menu has a price next to it.
As a result, I left university just owing the money for my course. A lot of people I know left owing the kind of money that would buy you a twin-outboard speedboat.
Where I live it is very common for many people on normal incomes to have car loans of $100k+.
Cars are so expensive and debt is so cheap [car loan at around 1.8%] - that the most practical way of owning a car is via a loan over 7 years or so ..not many people have the spare cash to sink [say] $250k into a newish BMW or sports car.
Cars are so expensive and debt is so cheap [car loan at around 1.8%] - that the most practical way of owning a car is via a loan over 7 years or so ..not many people have the spare cash to sink [say] $250k into a newish BMW or sports car.
TTmonkey said:
Do you own everything you have without any associated debt?
No car loans?
No credit cards?
No sttore cards?
No personal loans?
It all adds up rather fast. If you owe nothing, lucky you. I'd say you were the exception to the rule. Even on PH.
I'm lucky too. No car loans?
No credit cards?
No sttore cards?
No personal loans?
It all adds up rather fast. If you owe nothing, lucky you. I'd say you were the exception to the rule. Even on PH.
Strangely, the harder you work and the more careful you are with money the luckier you get!
That figure is largely meaningless.
Some 19 year old kid on min wage with 4 credit cards at the limit, that's a serious issue.
50 year old Man who owns 75%+ of their home, higher rate tax payer, against a Car (or other large value easily liquidatable asset) it's a perfectly sensible amount of personal debt.
Of course it's an average, I know people on not amazing incomes who managed to run up credit cards debts of £20k even £30k before it all came crashing down around their ears.
Some 19 year old kid on min wage with 4 credit cards at the limit, that's a serious issue.
50 year old Man who owns 75%+ of their home, higher rate tax payer, against a Car (or other large value easily liquidatable asset) it's a perfectly sensible amount of personal debt.
Of course it's an average, I know people on not amazing incomes who managed to run up credit cards debts of £20k even £30k before it all came crashing down around their ears.
With these feet said:
As TC said above, apart from our mortgage neither myself or the missus have anything on our cards, no car loans or store cards.
I recently decided to open a workshop and instead of getting a loan to buy stuff I sold my car and used it for the business. I now drive around in either a 14 year old civic or 11 year old van!
Same here. the old saying is buy assets, rent/lease liabilities which cars (other than some classics) clearly are.I recently decided to open a workshop and instead of getting a loan to buy stuff I sold my car and used it for the business. I now drive around in either a 14 year old civic or 11 year old van!
I sold my car to fund my business, a far better use of cash than having it sit on the drive depreciating. I'd never buy anything other than older cars now, knowing they owe you nothing is a nice feeling.
alfaman said:
Where I live it is very common for many people on normal incomes to have car loans of $100k+.
Cars are so expensive and debt is so cheap [car loan at around 1.8%] - that the most practical way of owning a car is via a loan over 7 years or so ..not many people have the spare cash to sink [say] $250k into a newish BMW or sports car.
I think it's the culture of the family you're brought up in as well though. When I was a kid, my Dad never bought new cars. When he needed a car, he had a look at his bank account, saw how much he could justify paying, and either part-exed his last car or just bought something from the local rag or used car forecourt. New cars, it was reasoned to me, were only bought by rich people, and people who couldn't afford them outright when they were new bought them second-hand and used local mechanics or Haynes manuals to keep them going. That wasn't perverse, it was just normal, and it wasn't confined to my family, most people we knew did that - if anything it was a way of being able to drive a better car.Cars are so expensive and debt is so cheap [car loan at around 1.8%] - that the most practical way of owning a car is via a loan over 7 years or so ..not many people have the spare cash to sink [say] $250k into a newish BMW or sports car.
And that's something I've stuck to ever since and I'm amazed at the attitude towards debt and the easily-pleased nature of the masses when it comes to blowing a wad on an unremarkable new runaround.
Agreed, also have no debt but drive a 8 yr old Diesel Mondeo. I keep looking at nicer stuff but will save till I can but it for cash.
I'm 31 now but at 26 had over £20,000 of debt and was earning circa £17Kpa. I had about 45K of credit made available to me via numerous credit cards and overdrafts.
I don't blame anyone else, it was completley my choice to borrow. I've paid it all back now and live a far happier life.
I never had advice from friends or family but am quite happy to pass on lessons learned if folk are in need.
I'm 31 now but at 26 had over £20,000 of debt and was earning circa £17Kpa. I had about 45K of credit made available to me via numerous credit cards and overdrafts.
I don't blame anyone else, it was completley my choice to borrow. I've paid it all back now and live a far happier life.
I never had advice from friends or family but am quite happy to pass on lessons learned if folk are in need.
Rick101 said:
Agreed, also have no debt but drive a 8 yr old Diesel Mondeo. I keep looking at nicer stuff but will save till I can but it for cash.
I'm 31 now but at 26 had over £20,000 of debt and was earning circa £17Kpa. I had about 45K of credit made available to me via numerous credit cards and overdrafts.
I don't blame anyone else, it was completley my choice to borrow. I've paid it all back now and live a far happier life.
I never had advice from friends or family but am quite happy to pass on lessons learned if folk are in need.
Unfortunately many people weren't as sensible as you and bit the arms of the credit providers off without thinking about how they were going to pay it back, hence where we are today I'm 31 now but at 26 had over £20,000 of debt and was earning circa £17Kpa. I had about 45K of credit made available to me via numerous credit cards and overdrafts.
I don't blame anyone else, it was completley my choice to borrow. I've paid it all back now and live a far happier life.
I never had advice from friends or family but am quite happy to pass on lessons learned if folk are in need.
BoRED S2upid said:
TTmonkey said:
Do you own everything you have without any associated debt?
I try and live within my means. £10k each seems high to me and thats an average so there must be a lot with considerably higher than this to counter the lucky few who only have a few thousand or even none!TTmonkey said:
Do you own everything you have without any associated debt?
No car loans?
No credit cards?
No sttore cards?
No personal loans?
It all adds up rather fast. If you owe nothing, lucky you. I'd say you were the exception to the rule. Even on PH.
I owe 700 quid on my Barclay card. No car loans?
No credit cards?
No sttore cards?
No personal loans?
It all adds up rather fast. If you owe nothing, lucky you. I'd say you were the exception to the rule. Even on PH.
And my wife owes about 1200 quid on a credit card she is not supposed to even have.
Apart from that, we have two small mortgages on two houses, but no personal debts.
And our car is 20 years old because I refuse to take finance for a frigging mega-overpriced brand new fashion accessory that will be obsolete in five years.
doogz said:
I'm another one of these smarmy gits that has no debt outside my mortgage.
Not much in the way of savings either right enough, but work's going well just now, so there's time for that.
That was me Not much in the way of savings either right enough, but work's going well just now, so there's time for that.
only thing outside my mortage is a 0% loan on a kitchen which gets paid off at the end of this year.
I once had a car loan when I was 18. It cost me a fortune and the car depreciated like a stone I made a decision never to do that again. I bought something cheap ran it for 2 years and saved up.
I have done that ever since. I don't like the idea of paying extra interest on a depreciating asset.
Nothing against car loans if thats what people want to do thats great. Just not for me at this time.
Might change my mind in future though.
Interesting points on new car vs. old car, depreciation, etc.
It all depends how much discount you secure on a new or nearly new car
Then, the only thing to factor in is depreciation because you will have a warranty and the car will not need items such as tyres, brakes, exhaust, etc.
Compare this to an older car with repair bills, MOT's, the cost of breakdown cover, vehicle excise duty (assuming it won't have 12 months on it when you buy), it will still depreciate, etc. etc. and the difference may not be as great as you think
I have made money on older (within 3 years old) cars after running them for 6 months or so and then selling them on so I appreciate that "free" motoring is do-able
Factor in the real, potential and hidden costs of older cars though and it isn't as easy as it sounds
It all depends how much discount you secure on a new or nearly new car
Then, the only thing to factor in is depreciation because you will have a warranty and the car will not need items such as tyres, brakes, exhaust, etc.
Compare this to an older car with repair bills, MOT's, the cost of breakdown cover, vehicle excise duty (assuming it won't have 12 months on it when you buy), it will still depreciate, etc. etc. and the difference may not be as great as you think
I have made money on older (within 3 years old) cars after running them for 6 months or so and then selling them on so I appreciate that "free" motoring is do-able
Factor in the real, potential and hidden costs of older cars though and it isn't as easy as it sounds
£1350 debt to organisations.
£2000 to Mother.
What i would do for an increase of £500 on my credit card right now. I have $24.10 to last me 2 weeks and i will be at a wedding on Friday.
The reason for the debt is simple, I have just started a new job and had a payrise of £4k
which means i still earn £4k less than i did in November last year and having an £8k paycut really exposes ares in your life which waste money.
I have sold my scooby, downsized my house, cut my spending and in 2-3 months (with no shocks) i will have cleared the lot. If i can carry on like that i should be able to have a nice quality of life again just in time for Autumn.
£2000 to Mother.
What i would do for an increase of £500 on my credit card right now. I have $24.10 to last me 2 weeks and i will be at a wedding on Friday.
The reason for the debt is simple, I have just started a new job and had a payrise of £4k
which means i still earn £4k less than i did in November last year and having an £8k paycut really exposes ares in your life which waste money. I have sold my scooby, downsized my house, cut my spending and in 2-3 months (with no shocks) i will have cleared the lot. If i can carry on like that i should be able to have a nice quality of life again just in time for Autumn.
Red 4 said:
Interesting points on new car vs. old car, depreciation, etc.
It all depends how much discount you secure on a new or nearly new car
Then, the only thing to factor in is depreciation because you will have a warranty and the car will not need items such as tyres, brakes, exhaust, etc.
Compare this to an older car with repair bills, MOT's, the cost of breakdown cover, vehicle excise duty (assuming it won't have 12 months on it when you buy), it will still depreciate, etc. etc. and the difference may not be as great as you think
I have made money on older (within 3 years old) cars after running them for 6 months or so and then selling them on so I appreciate that "free" motoring is do-able
Factor in the real, potential and hidden costs of older cars though and it isn't as easy as it sounds
It does depend on what you pay. I've done similar but on older cars as I don't want the risk of a depreciating asset. Elsewhere I've plenty of tales of people who've bought BMWs'/Volvos with hefty employee or armed forces discounts and still lost money.It all depends how much discount you secure on a new or nearly new car
Then, the only thing to factor in is depreciation because you will have a warranty and the car will not need items such as tyres, brakes, exhaust, etc.
Compare this to an older car with repair bills, MOT's, the cost of breakdown cover, vehicle excise duty (assuming it won't have 12 months on it when you buy), it will still depreciate, etc. etc. and the difference may not be as great as you think
I have made money on older (within 3 years old) cars after running them for 6 months or so and then selling them on so I appreciate that "free" motoring is do-able
Factor in the real, potential and hidden costs of older cars though and it isn't as easy as it sounds
Right now I've two very nice cars on my drive which are the envy of my neighbours yet could be broken for close to what I paid for them.
And running costs aren't too bad as long as you know what you are doing when buying but I appreciate this is becoming a lost skill.
If I compare my cars to my wife's car which was bought nearly new at a substantial discount. Even if I keep it 14 yrs it will still have lost £1000 per year.
Twincam16 said:
I think it's the culture of the family you're brought up in as well though. When I was a kid, my Dad never bought new cars. When he needed a car, he had a look at his bank account, saw how much he could justify paying, and either part-exed his last car or just bought something from the local rag or used car forecourt. New cars, it was reasoned to me, were only bought by rich people, and people who couldn't afford them outright when they were new bought them second-hand and used local mechanics or Haynes manuals to keep them going. That wasn't perverse, it was just normal, and it wasn't confined to my family, most people we knew did that - if anything it was a way of being able to drive a better car.
And that's something I've stuck to ever since and I'm amazed at the attitude towards debt and the easily-pleased nature of the masses when it comes to blowing a wad on an unremarkable new runaround.
Same here. The secret is to stop trying to keep up with the Joneses (or move somewhere with poorer neighbours.And that's something I've stuck to ever since and I'm amazed at the attitude towards debt and the easily-pleased nature of the masses when it comes to blowing a wad on an unremarkable new runaround.
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