Pilots flying after 22 hours straight awake due to EU regs

[oyster]

Hang on.

The EU is proposing to RELAX some health & safety rules and make things easier for businesses? The poor folks at the Daily Express will need to have a lie down over this (pun intended).


Anyway, a question to the pilots - presumably these extra hours will mean you get paid more?

[Deva Link]

The Big G said:

Under the EU’s proposals:
• Pilots could be awake for 22 hours straight before landing their aircraft at the end of the day.
• Pilots will be made to fly further without a relief crew member meaning that they won’t be as well rested as they could be.
• And pilots could be asked to do more early starts in a row, which evidence shows is fatiguing.

Considering the EU is always being slated for interfering and increasing business's costs, what's the reasoning benind these proposals? They seem to fly (excuse the pun) in the face of all that we expect from the EU.

[anonymous-user]

Greg_D said:

I think a truckie's job is a lot more dangerous than a pilot's.

You think there would be lots of technical exams and tests and 6 monthly simulator checks, yearly line checks and at least yearly medicals for truck drivers wouldn't you? It ought to be better regulated by someone.

I imagine an engine failure or something going wrong technically is more complex in an aircraft taking off than in a truck?

You're probably right though.

Edited by el stovey on Wednesday 30th May 17:57

[pushthebutton]

oyster said:

Anyway, a question to the pilots - presumably these extra hours will mean you get paid more?

If a portion of your pay is via hourly rate then yes. But, pilots are still against it....

[oyster]

pushthebutton said:

oyster said:

Anyway, a question to the pilots - presumably these extra hours will mean you get paid more?

If a portion of your pay is via hourly rate then yes. But, pilots are still against it....

Meanwhile back in the real world we're all being asked to do more for less. Pilots cry when they're asked to do more for more.

Maybe they should get Bob Crow to represent them - the argument sounds similar. And just as many exaggerated claims.

[The Big G]

oyster said:

pushthebutton said:

oyster said:

Anyway, a question to the pilots - presumably these extra hours will mean you get paid more?

If a portion of your pay is via hourly rate then yes. But, pilots are still against it....

Meanwhile back in the real world we're all being asked to do more for less. Pilots cry when they're asked to do more for more.

Maybe they should get Bob Crow to represent them - the argument sounds similar. And just as many exaggerated claims.

But pushing paper over a desk 9-5 as per a lot of jobs is totally different too flying a plane at any time of the day any time of the week. Especially while having to be fit at the end to be able to deal with a serious malfunction adequately as I'm sure you hope we will be able to. What risks are there in your job? If we don't do ours properly at stupid times of the night people die and we can go to prison. If we survive.

Just remember the pilots are saying that these rules are not a good idea, even though we may be paid more. What does this tell you!!!

[The Big G]

9 new signatures in the last hour. Many thanks to those of you who have signed it. And for those who haven't have a think through the implications that pilot fatigue could have on you one fateful night

[anonymous-user]

oyster said:

pushthebutton said:

oyster said:

Anyway, a question to the pilots - presumably these extra hours will mean you get paid more?

If a portion of your pay is via hourly rate then yes. But, pilots are still against it....

Meanwhile back in the real world we're all being asked to do more for less. Pilots cry when they're asked to do more for more.

Maybe they should get Bob Crow to represent them - the argument sounds similar. And just as many exaggerated claims.

They're not being asked to do more for more they're being asked to do a similar overall amount but in longer goes each time. That's why there is fatigue issues. Plenty of pilots have had pay cuts or pension changes or redundancies like any other private sector company. Don't let that stop you though you appear to know all about it already.

[pushthebutton]

oyster said:

Meanwhile back in the real world we're all being asked to do more for less. Pilots cry when they're asked to do more for more.

Maybe they should get Bob Crow to represent them - the argument sounds similar. And just as many exaggerated claims.

I don't post in too many topics on PH unless I think I have something useful to add. I do, however, read a lot because there's some really good info from people with a wide variety of backgrounds. I'm always a bit amazed when people are willing to post opinions both 'vocally' and with a degree of antagonism on subjects they have clearly made little attempt to understand.

Therein lies the difference between you and I

Edited by pushthebutton on Wednesday 30th May 19:06

[hedgefinder]

i find it utterly ridiculous that people are comparing truck drivers to airline pilots....and to be honest anyone who thinks these new regs arent a problem obviously has their head up their arse.

[The Big G]

For more information have a watch of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9yumixcN-o

and have a look at this too

http://www.keepflyingsafe.co.uk/

[fflyingdog]

On a side note ,maybe you should also consider the amount of hours an engineer puts in,especially worth thinking about at 350.

[oyster]

pushthebutton said:

oyster said:

Meanwhile back in the real world we're all being asked to do more for less. Pilots cry when they're asked to do more for more.

Maybe they should get Bob Crow to represent them - the argument sounds similar. And just as many exaggerated claims.

I don't post in too many topics on PH unless I think I have something useful to add. I do, however, read a lot because there's some really good info from people with a wide variety of backgrounds. I'm always a bit amazed when people are willing to post opinions both 'vocally' and with a degree of antagonism on subjects they have clearly made little attempt to understand.

Therein lies the difference between you and I

Edited by pushthebutton on Wednesday 30th May 19:06

If this was pprune, I'd accept that to some degree. But since this isn't a specialist forum, I don't think the subject should be restricted to only those 'in the know'. Incidentally that's a very arrogant approach to take.

In any case I do have a background career in flying, so you are acting presumtuously as well as arrogantly.

[iphonedyou]

Greg_D said:

I think a truckie's job is a lot more dangerous than a pilot's.

Yes, if a plane comes down you have hundreds dead, but that requires literally minutes of screaming and hauling on the controls, fatigue would not be an issue if the plane lost (for example) all it's hydraulics.

just one little 10 second micronap from a shattered truckie could EASILY result in half a dozen deaths. the entire cockpit crew of a 777 could be asleep for 6 hours over the atlantic and noone would notice the difference.

This is either trolling, or incredible arrogance. You could, of course, be an incredibly arrogant troll.

ETA: OK, I see you're trolling. I read it again and got the 'hundreds dead' and 'half a dozen deaths' part. I'll leave my original comment up for posterity, regardless.

[GC8]

I mentioned tachographs in post #4 but my intention, rather obviously I think, was to draw a parallel between the very restricted driving/available hours for large vehicle drivers and those proposed for three hundred passenger plane drivers.

[BliarOut]

AF 447, do you really want tired or confused pilots making decisions when they're shattered?

[Greg_D]

iphonedyou said:

Greg_D said:

I think a truckie's job is a lot more dangerous than a pilot's.

Yes, if a plane comes down you have hundreds dead, but that requires literally minutes of screaming and hauling on the controls, fatigue would not be an issue if the plane lost (for example) all it's hydraulics.

just one little 10 second micronap from a shattered truckie could EASILY result in half a dozen deaths. the entire cockpit crew of a 777 could be asleep for 6 hours over the atlantic and noone would notice the difference.

This is either trolling, or incredible arrogance. You could, of course, be an incredibly arrogant troll.

ETA: OK, I see you're trolling. I read it again and got the 'hundreds dead' and 'half a dozen deaths' part. I'll leave my original comment up for posterity, regardless.

you know all those fancy words you used, do you know what they mean?

Arrogance
Trolling

In what way do they apply here?

I agree (as stated in my earlier post) that, in extremis, the results of a plane crash will be worse. But a momentary lapse in consciousness due to fatigue for a lorry driver WILL be worse than the same thing for a pilot.

What part of that is trolling?

[anonymous-user]

Greg_D said:

I agree (as stated in my earlier post) that, in extremis, the results of a plane crash will be worse. But a momentary lapse in consciousness due to fatigue for a lorry driver WILL be worse than the same thing for a pilot.

What part of that is trolling?

Most people here drive, they understand the implications of falling asleep at the wheel.

Of course falling asleep at the wheel when driving a truck on the road might be worse than one pilot falling asleep in the cruise but fatigue isn't just about if you're actually awake or not it's about your degraded ability to deal with complex tasks at crucial times.

[The Big G]

Greg_D said:

a momentary lapse in consciousness due to fatigue for a lorry driver WILL be worse than the same thing for a pilot.

This all depends in what phase of flight or part of road the lorry is on. Would you wish the pilots skills to be degraded through fatigue at take off or landing? There isn't really any space here for that and we need to be on top of our game if the conditions require it.

el stovey said:

Of course falling asleep at the wheel when driving a truck on the road might be worse than one pilot falling asleep in the cruise but fatigue isn't just about if you're actually awake or not it's about your degraded ability to deal with complex tasks at crucial times.

This though is the most important part of the issue though mentioned by el stovey.

But please, this isn't meant to be a slanging match. I just wish to inform people outside of the industry know of the problem that if affecting the industry at the moment and the possible repercussions that it could have upon yourself and your family one fateful night in the future.

[anonymous-user]

oyster said:

pushthebutton said:

oyster said:

Meanwhile back in the real world we're all being asked to do more for less. Pilots cry when they're asked to do more for more.

Maybe they should get Bob Crow to represent them - the argument sounds similar. And just as many exaggerated claims.

I don't post in too many topics on PH unless I think I have something useful to add. I do, however, read a lot because there's some really good info from people with a wide variety of backgrounds. I'm always a bit amazed when people are willing to post opinions both 'vocally' and with a degree of antagonism on subjects they have clearly made little attempt to understand.

Therein lies the difference between you and I

Edited by pushthebutton on Wednesday 30th May 19:06

If this was pprune, I'd accept that to some degree. But since this isn't a specialist forum, I don't think the subject should be restricted to only those 'in the know'. Incidentally that's a very arrogant approach to take.

In any case I do have a background career in flying, so you are acting presumtuously as well as arrogantly.

No it's you who come across as arrogant. You start your post with the statement "In the real world" as though pilots are somehow removed from it. You then state that new regulations (that you don't understand) will leave us better off and link us to Bob Crowe and finally accuse someone of making exaggerated claims.

How on earth do you think that's supposed to sound?