Yet more feckless wasters.
Discussion
martin84 said:
You wont like the taxation system of Scandinavian countries though.
Personally, I didn't like the taxation level in Sweden. I was most disgruntled at having to pay more tax than Swedish nationals, and about having to pay for medical care that Swedes got for free.But now that I no longer pay tax in Sweden
I can see the sense in it. Why not do something like that here? If you or either of your parents paid into the pot, you get taxed at a lower rate (so young people in their first jobs won't be penalised). You pay for your medical care unless you have a certificate to say you've paid into the tax system at some point in your life. No certificate - you can still be treated for free, but you have to accept that you can't have elective procedures such as gastric banding or IVF. And we should charge for all ambulance callouts that don't involve emergencies, thereby putting off the people who'll call an ambulance to get to hospital for non-urgent problems.SGirl said:
Personally, I didn't like the taxation level in Sweden. I was most disgruntled at having to pay more tax than Swedish nationals, and about having to pay for medical care that Swedes got for free.
But now that I no longer pay tax in Sweden I can see the sense in it. Why not do something like that here? If you or either of your parents paid into the pot, you get taxed at a lower rate (so young people in their first jobs won't be penalised). You pay for your medical care unless you have a certificate to say you've paid into the tax system at some point in your life. No certificate - you can still be treated for free, but you have to accept that you can't have elective procedures such as gastric banding or IVF. And we should charge for all ambulance callouts that don't involve emergencies, thereby putting off the people who'll call an ambulance to get to hospital for non-urgent problems.
Far too sensible, will never happen in the UK.But now that I no longer pay tax in Sweden
I can see the sense in it. Why not do something like that here? If you or either of your parents paid into the pot, you get taxed at a lower rate (so young people in their first jobs won't be penalised). You pay for your medical care unless you have a certificate to say you've paid into the tax system at some point in your life. No certificate - you can still be treated for free, but you have to accept that you can't have elective procedures such as gastric banding or IVF. And we should charge for all ambulance callouts that don't involve emergencies, thereby putting off the people who'll call an ambulance to get to hospital for non-urgent problems.Mobile Chicane said:
TheDiplomat said:
UKIP's policy makes the most sense: only receive benefits for your first 3 children.
Or none at all... Why pay people to breed?Rather invest the money in workplace nurseries for those who:
a. need it
b. contribute something to society.
I've just worked out that this hard up family get 25% more take home 'pay' than we do... I earn just above national average and the wife just below.
What you guys fail to recognise is that brain dead vegetables like this and their offspring simply provide rich pickings for the capitalist system. Id be surprised if they didn't spend 100% of their "benefits" each month.
This all goes into hard working peoples pockets with a very low threshold of effort.
Just wave a few coloured items around and the sale is done. In this manner the government keeps the real economy ticking over and a few more consumers are born for exploitation, thus maintaining the cycle.
If everyone was mentally conscious it would be much harder for the marginally useful businesses like the lottery, beauty salons etc to make any money.
This all goes into hard working peoples pockets with a very low threshold of effort.
Just wave a few coloured items around and the sale is done. In this manner the government keeps the real economy ticking over and a few more consumers are born for exploitation, thus maintaining the cycle.
If everyone was mentally conscious it would be much harder for the marginally useful businesses like the lottery, beauty salons etc to make any money.
ringram said:
What you guys fail to recognise is that brain dead vegetables like this and their offspring simply provide rich pickings for the capitalist system. Id be surprised if they didn't spend 100% of their "benefits" each month.
This all goes into hard working peoples pockets with a very low threshold of effort.
Just wave a few coloured items around and the sale is done. In this manner the government keeps the real economy ticking over and a few more consumers are born for exploitation, thus maintaining the cycle.
If everyone was mentally conscious it would be much harder for the marginally useful businesses like the lottery, beauty salons etc to make any money.
Consumption without production is inflation. By your logic a country full of pensioners and would work just fine and dandy. This all goes into hard working peoples pockets with a very low threshold of effort.
Just wave a few coloured items around and the sale is done. In this manner the government keeps the real economy ticking over and a few more consumers are born for exploitation, thus maintaining the cycle.
If everyone was mentally conscious it would be much harder for the marginally useful businesses like the lottery, beauty salons etc to make any money.
I dont see why it is unreasonable for people on benefit to at least do SOMETHING for their money - clean up their street, remove graffiti, do work for the elderly, and other things that our taxes go on.
Of course there are plenty of people who deserve their benefits, but those who are just sponging and are fit and healthy should be incentivised to work. The current system is broken when it pays to not work, and the more kids you have the bigger the council house. Boils my piss.
Even more amazing I just had to pay about a grand to have the snip - you think the government would be chomping at the bit for people to do this wouldn't you?!
Of course there are plenty of people who deserve their benefits, but those who are just sponging and are fit and healthy should be incentivised to work. The current system is broken when it pays to not work, and the more kids you have the bigger the council house. Boils my piss.
Even more amazing I just had to pay about a grand to have the snip - you think the government would be chomping at the bit for people to do this wouldn't you?!
edo said:
I dont see why it is unreasonable for people on benefit to at least do SOMETHING for their money - clean up their street, remove graffiti, do work for the elderly, and other things that our taxes go on.
And the people that are currently paid to do those things will do what instead? Sign on?blugnu said:
edo said:
I dont see why it is unreasonable for people on benefit to at least do SOMETHING for their money - clean up their street, remove graffiti, do work for the elderly, and other things that our taxes go on.
And the people that are currently paid to do those things will do what instead? Sign on?The whole benefit system got out of hand years ago with no Political Party brave enough to get a grip and schools churning out kids with no work ethic or ambitions.Mind you its very difficult to suggest an alternative to the example family on £49K benefits,how much would the brain dead dad get at work £8 per hour? Also most of the low paid unskilled jobs are filled by illegals,a total mess and I haven't a clue how to put an end to it.The older generation had good work ethics,determination and motivation. My father was blinded and lost a hand in WW2.He used to catch a bus to his full time job as a telephonist and also lecture to RAF cadets in the evening.Of course he had a war pension but felt it was his duty to work and provide for his family.When his heart cried enough in 1965 my mum carried on with this attitude and got a job. I wonder what the feckless wasters would make of people like them.??
blugnu said:
12gauge said:
Consumption without production is inflation. By your logic a country full of pensioners and would work just fine and dandy.
A country full of pensioners is not possible - there would have to be some workers to sell them food, for example.edo said:
Even more amazing I just had to pay about a grand to have the snip - you think the government would be chomping at the bit for people to do this wouldn't you?!
my local DR did it for free, privately - he had a discretionary fund and I got funded without asking. If I'd paid it would have been £150. The only way to make the benefits systems work is to make it very uncomfortable for people who 'won't' work, whilst still being fair for those who 'can't', while we still have to care about those who won't work, or have children they cant afford, we are going to have problems.
You should have to work for your benefits, just not doing a job that could be paid minimum wage and up to do.... perhaps give them a red flag to walk in front of cars, or a shovel to pick up dog muck off the street (paid by weight of what they collect)
pherlopolus said:
The only way to make the benefits systems work is to make it very uncomfortable for people who 'won't' work, whilst still being fair for those who 'can't', while we still have to care about those who won't work, or have children they cant afford, we are going to have problems.
How?blugnu said:
blueg33 said:
Perhaps tax ££'s should be spent on relocating people to the work, not trying to falsely create an economy where there is too little critical mass for it to work
there are massive opportunities out there. Imagine if the UK were the world leader in making fuel from waste (the bacteria exist) - Though I suppose it is South Yorkshire...
Edited by Lost_BMW on Thursday 31st May 21:42
My business partner used to be a factory manager for Dr Marten's. He had good workers, on a regular basis, jack in jobs saying that that, I quote, "With me benefit, and a few cash in hand window
cleaning jobs, I'll be coming out with more than I am now. Won't have to be here five days a week at 07.30 either"...
The problem is they were right... The next problem is, where do they now make Dr Marten's? Why should Mr Griggs, or indeed any private sector employer, have to compete with the Govt on benefit payouts?
We compete in a global market and our benefit system has effectively, in many areas, priced us out of it... Madness.
cleaning jobs, I'll be coming out with more than I am now. Won't have to be here five days a week at 07.30 either"...
The problem is they were right... The next problem is, where do they now make Dr Marten's? Why should Mr Griggs, or indeed any private sector employer, have to compete with the Govt on benefit payouts?
We compete in a global market and our benefit system has effectively, in many areas, priced us out of it... Madness.
Negative Creep said:
They are correct insofar as it would be pointless to work. How many people would realistically work 40 hours a weak if you can get paid more to sit around doing nothing?
As my girlfriends dad oft quoted to me, back in the seventies. "Why do something for nothing, when I can do nothing for something?"There were 8 kids in the family and he was far better off on the dole than working. Not his fault, he wanted to work, but he had no real skills and a minimum wage job took away most of his benefits.
There is no law stating that you can't have more kids than you can comfortably support by your own means. Maybe there should be, but the government does hand out child benefit to EVERY parent in the country with a kid under 16. They must have a reason for subsidizing every family.
Halb said:
pherlopolus said:
The only way to make the benefits systems work is to make it very uncomfortable for people who 'won't' work, whilst still being fair for those who 'can't', while we still have to care about those who won't work, or have children they cant afford, we are going to have problems.
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