Get ready for a doing.
Discussion
So folk have been buying more fuel efficient cars to
1. save the planet
OR
2. save on fuel costs due to the recession [part # as you feel fit]
OR BOTH.
Quote from article below.
"The government announced in the Budget that they will consider whether Vehicle Excise Duty should be reformed to support the sustainability of public finances and to reflect the improvements in vehicle fuel efficiency."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18277311
1. save the planet
OR
2. save on fuel costs due to the recession [part # as you feel fit]
OR BOTH.
Quote from article below.
"The government announced in the Budget that they will consider whether Vehicle Excise Duty should be reformed to support the sustainability of public finances and to reflect the improvements in vehicle fuel efficiency."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18277311
.baz1985 said:
Scrap VED, add it to fuel duty...that's efficiency savings.
It is the most sensible thing to do if you truly want to make it a green tax.Its entirely based on consumption, so if you drive 100k per year in your prius, or 1k in your classic muscle car, then you are taxed fairly.
Its...
Fair to all
Easy to administer
Simple and cheaper to collect
Hard to avoid (unless you carry out a criminal act)
Removes a poimtless process (a paper document stuck to your window in this day and age ffs!)
The only reason its still a seperate system is that its two seperate sources of income which can be raised.
I've never seen the point of road tax other than to create jobs and waste time it is a tool to steer people in favoured directions.
The purpose I see it serving is that it works to generate new car sales but that element has clearly slowed down but also been extremely successful as people have sold perfectly good cars to buy new ones with lower tax.
But, in all honesty, am I missing something? Does the VED actually serve an important function that I have over looked?
With regards to petrol being the logical tax, how much do we estimate would need to be added to a litre? 5p, 10p?
The purpose I see it serving is that it works to generate new car sales but that element has clearly slowed down but also been extremely successful as people have sold perfectly good cars to buy new ones with lower tax.
But, in all honesty, am I missing something? Does the VED actually serve an important function that I have over looked?
With regards to petrol being the logical tax, how much do we estimate would need to be added to a litre? 5p, 10p?
voyds9 said:
They've already done it with diesel (Brown), reduction in tax for company car drivers who drive Euro IV cars until a lot did then the benefit was removed.
To be fair they gave a discount on the company car tax when both Euro III and Euro IV cars were available to encourage people to take the cleaner one. When Euro IV became mandatory there was no need to offer a discount so they ended it.I have a different view on VED.
I think there are a lot of people who have a car and pretty much only use it for short trips (1 mile to the shops, 0.5 miles to drop the kids at school as it is raining etc etc). These are the journeys that do not need to happen.
But they are so short that fuel costing £1 a litre, £2 a litre or even £5 a litre doesn't really matter as you are using so little.
Conversly the people doing big mileages normal have little choice, other than not getting to where they need to go at all. Trains and public transport are non-viable for any journey that isn't city centre to city centre. Cost of fuel hurts people doing these trips but they can't do much other than 'suck it up'. They probably have pretty efficient cars already.
So my plan is to get rid of VED brackets (as they don't make sense) and increase the cost. Say £1000 or even £2000 a year. Then virtually scrap fuel duty.
Bingo, people who just have cars to do short trips and don't care about fuel costs get rid of their cars and walk to work/school. People who need a car as they do lots of miles probably end up paying about the same due to lower fuel costs. Roads are a lot emptier and 'real' petrol heads will happily pay the extra VED for their fleets of cars as the pay back of cheaper fuel and empty roads are worth it. (and all the pretend petrolheaders in their 1.6TDI pretend hot hatches get to winge and complain and not get in our way as they can't afford a car any more...)
I think there are a lot of people who have a car and pretty much only use it for short trips (1 mile to the shops, 0.5 miles to drop the kids at school as it is raining etc etc). These are the journeys that do not need to happen.
But they are so short that fuel costing £1 a litre, £2 a litre or even £5 a litre doesn't really matter as you are using so little.
Conversly the people doing big mileages normal have little choice, other than not getting to where they need to go at all. Trains and public transport are non-viable for any journey that isn't city centre to city centre. Cost of fuel hurts people doing these trips but they can't do much other than 'suck it up'. They probably have pretty efficient cars already.
So my plan is to get rid of VED brackets (as they don't make sense) and increase the cost. Say £1000 or even £2000 a year. Then virtually scrap fuel duty.
Bingo, people who just have cars to do short trips and don't care about fuel costs get rid of their cars and walk to work/school. People who need a car as they do lots of miles probably end up paying about the same due to lower fuel costs. Roads are a lot emptier and 'real' petrol heads will happily pay the extra VED for their fleets of cars as the pay back of cheaper fuel and empty roads are worth it. (and all the pretend petrolheaders in their 1.6TDI pretend hot hatches get to winge and complain and not get in our way as they can't afford a car any more...)
Edited by c7xlg on Friday 1st June 10:08
Puggit said:
In fairness to Labour, they are the party who dropped VED for cleaner cars.
Unfortunately for them, it's also Labour who f
ked up the economy, meaning that this little hole in the taxes needs to be removed.
Didn't they also freeze the rolling 25 year classic car nil tax at 1972 when they got in. Unfortunately for them, it's also Labour who f
ked up the economy, meaning that this little hole in the taxes needs to be removed.c7xlg said:
I have a different view on VED.
I think there are a lot of people who have a car and pretty much only use it for short trips (1 mile to the shops, 0.5 miles to drop the kids at school as it is raining etc etc). These are the journeys that do not need to happen.
But they are so short that fuel costing £1 a litre, £2 a litre or even £5 a litre doesn't really matter as you are using so little.
Conversly the people doing big mileages normal have little choice, other than not getting to where they need to go at all. Trains and public transport are non-viable for any journey that isn't city centre to city centre. Cost of fuel hurts people doing these trips but they can't do much other than 'suck it up'. They probably have pretty efficient cars already.
So my plan is to get rid of VED brackets (as they don't make sense) and increase the cost. Say £1000 or even £2000 a year. Then virtually scrap fuel duty.
Bingo, people who just have cars to do short trips and dont' car about fuel costs get rid of their cars and work to work/school. People who need a car as they do lots of miles probably end up paying about the same due to lower fuel costs. Roads are a lot emptier and 'real' petrol heads will happily pay the extra VED for their fleets of cars as the pay back of cheaper fuel and empty roads are worth it. (and all the pretend petrolheaders in their 1.6TDI pretend hot hatches get to winge and complain and not get in our way as they can't afford a car any more...)
Seems logical as it would cut the short journeys. Can you imagine the backlash. Tax on pensioners and mothers will be the cry. I think there are a lot of people who have a car and pretty much only use it for short trips (1 mile to the shops, 0.5 miles to drop the kids at school as it is raining etc etc). These are the journeys that do not need to happen.
But they are so short that fuel costing £1 a litre, £2 a litre or even £5 a litre doesn't really matter as you are using so little.
Conversly the people doing big mileages normal have little choice, other than not getting to where they need to go at all. Trains and public transport are non-viable for any journey that isn't city centre to city centre. Cost of fuel hurts people doing these trips but they can't do much other than 'suck it up'. They probably have pretty efficient cars already.
So my plan is to get rid of VED brackets (as they don't make sense) and increase the cost. Say £1000 or even £2000 a year. Then virtually scrap fuel duty.
Bingo, people who just have cars to do short trips and dont' car about fuel costs get rid of their cars and work to work/school. People who need a car as they do lots of miles probably end up paying about the same due to lower fuel costs. Roads are a lot emptier and 'real' petrol heads will happily pay the extra VED for their fleets of cars as the pay back of cheaper fuel and empty roads are worth it. (and all the pretend petrolheaders in their 1.6TDI pretend hot hatches get to winge and complain and not get in our way as they can't afford a car any more...)
c7xlg said:
I have a different view on VED.
I think there are a lot of people who have a car and pretty much only use it for short trips (1 mile to the shops, 0.5 miles to drop the kids at school as it is raining etc etc). These are the journeys that do not need to happen.
But they are so short that fuel costing £1 a litre, £2 a litre or even £5 a litre doesn't really matter as you are using so little.
Conversly the people doing big mileages normal have little choice, other than not getting to where they need to go at all. Trains and public transport are non-viable for any journey that isn't city centre to city centre. Cost of fuel hurts people doing these trips but they can't do much other than 'suck it up'. They probably have pretty efficient cars already.
So my plan is to get rid of VED brackets (as they don't make sense) and increase the cost. Say £1000 or even £2000 a year. Then virtually scrap fuel duty.
Bingo, people who just have cars to do short trips and dont' car about fuel costs get rid of their cars and work to work/school. People who need a car as they do lots of miles probably end up paying about the same due to lower fuel costs. Roads are a lot emptier and 'real' petrol heads will happily pay the extra VED for their fleets of cars as the pay back of cheaper fuel and empty roads are worth it. (and all the pretend petrolheaders in their 1.6TDI pretend hot hatches get to winge and complain and not get in our way as they can't afford a car any more...)
You seem to be arbitrarily stating that long journeys are unavoidable and short journeys aren't. Why not get the long journey drivers onto trains and leave those with kids too far to walk to school alone?I think there are a lot of people who have a car and pretty much only use it for short trips (1 mile to the shops, 0.5 miles to drop the kids at school as it is raining etc etc). These are the journeys that do not need to happen.
But they are so short that fuel costing £1 a litre, £2 a litre or even £5 a litre doesn't really matter as you are using so little.
Conversly the people doing big mileages normal have little choice, other than not getting to where they need to go at all. Trains and public transport are non-viable for any journey that isn't city centre to city centre. Cost of fuel hurts people doing these trips but they can't do much other than 'suck it up'. They probably have pretty efficient cars already.
So my plan is to get rid of VED brackets (as they don't make sense) and increase the cost. Say £1000 or even £2000 a year. Then virtually scrap fuel duty.
Bingo, people who just have cars to do short trips and dont' car about fuel costs get rid of their cars and work to work/school. People who need a car as they do lots of miles probably end up paying about the same due to lower fuel costs. Roads are a lot emptier and 'real' petrol heads will happily pay the extra VED for their fleets of cars as the pay back of cheaper fuel and empty roads are worth it. (and all the pretend petrolheaders in their 1.6TDI pretend hot hatches get to winge and complain and not get in our way as they can't afford a car any more...)
Personally I'd ditch VED and stick it all on fuel, then anyone who uses the roads pays regardless of whether someone thinks one journey has more merit than another.
"Trains and public transport are non-viable for any journey that isn't city centre to city centre"
cars ARE the best, and often only, viable option for long trips that are not a city centre to city centre. People who live in a big city and don't like stepping off tarmac/concrete often forget this!
For example I used to have to commute from a village near basingstoke to Solihull. 90 mins by car, as compared to public transport which would be at leasdt 3 hours door to door (taxi/cycle 2 miles, train to basingstoke, change train, train to leamington, change train, train to solihull and then 10 mins walk.) That is not a viable option if you are trying to do close to a full working day in the office.
cars ARE the best, and often only, viable option for long trips that are not a city centre to city centre. People who live in a big city and don't like stepping off tarmac/concrete often forget this!
For example I used to have to commute from a village near basingstoke to Solihull. 90 mins by car, as compared to public transport which would be at leasdt 3 hours door to door (taxi/cycle 2 miles, train to basingstoke, change train, train to leamington, change train, train to solihull and then 10 mins walk.) That is not a viable option if you are trying to do close to a full working day in the office.
I was always a supporter of scrapping VED in favour of another couple of pence on fuel, but I now don't think that'll ever happen. Main reason is that there's a small but steadily increasing number of vehicles on the market that are either primarily or entirely fuelled by energy obtained from mains electricity. After seeing the rise in the number of vehicles in the very low/no VED categories, no govt is going to pass up a method of taxing these cars in the future.
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