Germany to ban religious genital mutilation?
Discussion
rxtx said:
I don't think there's anything to feel embarrassed or guilty about. If one's parents circumcised them, then that is not their fault of course. If they then had their children circumcised purely because they were, or maybe because they were under the impression it was "best" - I'm trying to look for a nicer term than ignorance, which is not necessarily a negative term - then even that's ok too. It's a little bit like indoctrination.
The important thing is whether knowledge enlightens or not. If one refuses to accept the research and gets angered by others' opposing views, then there is a problem. To make comparisons between circumcision and vaccination, or hair and nails growing (don't know about you lot, but my foreskin stopped growing quite some time ago), that is quite some stretch of the imagination and is certainly no justification.
I suppose it's human nature to find it hard to humbly admit one was wrong. Personally I find saying "you're right, I'd never considered that before" one of the most enlightening things to say.
The important thing is whether knowledge enlightens or not. If one refuses to accept the research and gets angered by others' opposing views, then there is a problem. To make comparisons between circumcision and vaccination, or hair and nails growing (don't know about you lot, but my foreskin stopped growing quite some time ago), that is quite some stretch of the imagination and is certainly no justification.
I suppose it's human nature to find it hard to humbly admit one was wrong. Personally I find saying "you're right, I'd never considered that before" one of the most enlightening things to say.
TheLoon said:
I've had the snip and so have my two boys - yes my boys cried but that was for all of 90 seconds or so.
Blimey, are you serious?!!'The snip' is a vasectomy, a sterilisation procedure.
If you don't know the difference between a circumcision and a vasectomy, then I am very scared for your boys.
You are well named
Edited by wendyg on Wednesday 22 August 23:52
Marf said:
julian64 said:
I am getting increasingly jaded with the stance of the Americans on this.
Not all Americans are pro mutilation. The tide is appearing to turn over there and there are many many many Americans who resent being cut and will not cut their kids.For me it is not a tough call.
His body, his choice. Prophylactic, religious and cultural circumcision is mutilation.
In the UK, Doctors are in the preventing people from getting unwell and making them feel well business. This means that they can fix them by things like diet, exercise, washing, as well as pills and surgery.
In the US, Doctors are paid based on what they do. People don't pay a Doctor to say that their kid can avoid getting an STD later in life by practicing good hygiene and avoiding questionable individuals, they pay a Doctor to administer a dose of Gardisil or perform a circumcision.
It is hardly surprising therefore that the UK Doctors avoid circumcision and that US Doctors heavily promote it.
TheLoon said:
Some of the comments on here are so ridiculous, it's frightening.
Genital Mutilation? Last time I checked it was called circumcision - go ask your local GP about 'genital mutilation' and they'll most likely respond 'Erm, you mean circumcision?'. Just think about the term 'genital mutilation' - is it a medical term that's been around since the birth of modern medical science or is it a media term to demonise a simple procedure that's been done for thousands of years?
Also, many of the nay-sayers on here that are banging the 'mutilation' drum have probably not been circumcised nor have they children who have been so their opinions are completely baseless or are simply based on what they've read or heard in the media. I've had the snip and so have my two boys - yes my boys cried but that was for all of 90 seconds or so.
Now compare that with a child who is newly born and then is 'stabbed' with a syringe barely minutes in to this world? Where are his/her Human Rights that you guys bang on about? Funny that, isn't it? You can stab a small child multiple times in their earliest years, injecting them with Vaccine that I guarantee 99% of you don't know what it contains, but it's OK? Now go ask your GP what the Vaccine contains and I guarantee that 99% of GP's don't know what it contains - but you're STILL OK with that? Then watch how your child cries and if they're fortunate, they won't have any adverse auto-immune responses like these kids:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16109424
Where are their rights? Did they give full consent? Did they have full knowledge of what might happen to them? Yet you guys are silent on these issues.
Let's take the Human Rights stance that so many of you harp on about - basic premise is that without the child's consent, you are inflicting tyranny on them. So let's extend their Human Rights to cover all aspects of their lives then as you can't be selective over what they have choice over, can you? If your child says 'no' to having a wash, what are you going to do? Respecting their 'Human Rights' would mean that you would have to back down. If they don't want to go to school, are you going to force them? Tut tut. Respect their 'Human Rights' and see what type of person you will bring in to this world.
If you want to take the 'if it's there, it's there for a reason' stance, then don't clip your nails, cut your hair or clean your arse after a dump because 'that's how it's meant to be'. (I'm pretty sure some of you don't do the latter anyway
)
It's ok. I used lube when I abused your sons, and they only cried for 90 seconds so it doesn't matter. Genital Mutilation? Last time I checked it was called circumcision - go ask your local GP about 'genital mutilation' and they'll most likely respond 'Erm, you mean circumcision?'. Just think about the term 'genital mutilation' - is it a medical term that's been around since the birth of modern medical science or is it a media term to demonise a simple procedure that's been done for thousands of years?
Also, many of the nay-sayers on here that are banging the 'mutilation' drum have probably not been circumcised nor have they children who have been so their opinions are completely baseless or are simply based on what they've read or heard in the media. I've had the snip and so have my two boys - yes my boys cried but that was for all of 90 seconds or so.
Now compare that with a child who is newly born and then is 'stabbed' with a syringe barely minutes in to this world? Where are his/her Human Rights that you guys bang on about? Funny that, isn't it? You can stab a small child multiple times in their earliest years, injecting them with Vaccine that I guarantee 99% of you don't know what it contains, but it's OK? Now go ask your GP what the Vaccine contains and I guarantee that 99% of GP's don't know what it contains - but you're STILL OK with that? Then watch how your child cries and if they're fortunate, they won't have any adverse auto-immune responses like these kids:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16109424
Where are their rights? Did they give full consent? Did they have full knowledge of what might happen to them? Yet you guys are silent on these issues.
Let's take the Human Rights stance that so many of you harp on about - basic premise is that without the child's consent, you are inflicting tyranny on them. So let's extend their Human Rights to cover all aspects of their lives then as you can't be selective over what they have choice over, can you? If your child says 'no' to having a wash, what are you going to do? Respecting their 'Human Rights' would mean that you would have to back down. If they don't want to go to school, are you going to force them? Tut tut. Respect their 'Human Rights' and see what type of person you will bring in to this world.
If you want to take the 'if it's there, it's there for a reason' stance, then don't clip your nails, cut your hair or clean your arse after a dump because 'that's how it's meant to be'. (I'm pretty sure some of you don't do the latter anyway
)
Marf said:
mattnunn said:
Marf said:
and also from the sale of the excised tissue to various buyers including the cosmetic industry
I beg your pardon?The resale of foreskin removed from mutilated boys is big business.
I did not Google this I'll take your word, having read through the thread you seem to know your eggs, I am suprised though.
TheLoon said:
If you want to take the 'if it's there, it's there for a reason' stance, then don't clip your nails, cut your hair or clean your arse after a dump because 'that's how it's meant to be'. (I'm pretty sure some of you don't do the latter anyway )
And when a foreskin grows back every few weeks you may have a point.)voyds9 said:
TheLoon said:
If you want to take the 'if it's there, it's there for a reason' stance, then don't clip your nails, cut your hair or clean your arse after a dump because 'that's how it's meant to be'. (I'm pretty sure some of you don't do the latter anyway )
And when a foreskin grows back every few weeks you may have a point.)There is the possibility of becoming sick if I don't wash my hands.
Do I wash them, or do I chop them off?
Colonial said:
Quite.
There is the possibility of becoming sick if I don't wash my hands.
Do I wash them, or do I chop them off?
There is the possibility of becoming sick if I don't wash my hands.
Do I wash them, or do I chop them off?
did any of that rant above make any sense at all?There is conflicting research about health and the foreskin with some research suggesting the cells in the lining of the foreskin actually help kill viruses
Pesty said:
There is conflicting research about health and the foreskin with some research suggesting the cells in the lining of the foreskin actually help kill viruses
Langherans cells.They were shown in some studies to destroy viruses, incl HIV.
In Africa where a HIV related circumcision frenzy is currently under way(the entire Nigerian cabinet just offered themselves up to the knife), studies are now showing that the infection rate amongst those who had the chop is 16%, compared to 14% amongst those who didnt.
Circumcision is affecting their behaviour, i.e. the prevailing view amongst those who had the op is that it is a panacea against HIV and therefore they don't need a condom!
Marf said:
Langherans cells.
They were shown in some studies to destroy viruses, incl HIV.
In Africa where a HIV related circumcision frenzy is currently under way(the entire Nigerian cabinet just offered themselves up to the knife), studies are now showing that the infection rate amongst those who had the chop is 16%, compared to 14% amongst those who didnt.
Circumcision is affecting their behaviour, i.e. the prevailing view amongst those who had the op is that it is a panacea against HIV and therefore they don't need a condom!
Marf,They were shown in some studies to destroy viruses, incl HIV.
In Africa where a HIV related circumcision frenzy is currently under way(the entire Nigerian cabinet just offered themselves up to the knife), studies are now showing that the infection rate amongst those who had the chop is 16%, compared to 14% amongst those who didnt.
Circumcision is affecting their behaviour, i.e. the prevailing view amongst those who had the op is that it is a panacea against HIV and therefore they don't need a condom!
Takes balls and strength of conviction to stop this barbaric act. What scares me is the number of morons who are doing it purely because it was done to them. Or because of religion. Or because they 'fink' it's healthy choice. IMHO they should be imprisoned for very long time for child abuse.
And that moron who is comparing vaccination to this barbaric act, social services should take your kids away from you. You are not suitable to be a parent.
Or to make it simpler; as a parent, you are not 'fit for purpose'.
2 more children contract herpes due to metzitzah b'peh, (yes, I did have to copy and paste that).
Cock sucking Rabbi
And no, a Rabbi is not more than one rabbit.
Cock sucking Rabbi
And no, a Rabbi is not more than one rabbit.
Robb F said:
He was saying that despite finding your posts on other topic areas extreme, this subject is one where he agrees with you.
I am aware of that. I am simply remarking that anything I could possibly be say about anything else could be seen as 'extreme' when compared to circumcision. Actually, I'm not sure what else I have said on other things that is extreme?
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