Supreme Court Upholds Obamacare

[Engineer1]

joe_90 said:

Jasandjules said:

Engineer1 said:

That and a religion that was made up recently

So it is only long standing imaginary friends that count?

Correct, don't fark with Zeus or Ra.

Old imaginary friends at-least have cultural tradition, and an appeal to antiquity.

[Carfiend]

My imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend.

[Caulkhead]

unrepentant said:

Caulkhead said:

As with most things, the topic is more complicated than you make out. The examples you give above comes under the heading of catastrophic insurance. Under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act 1986, hospitals are forced to treat the results of such catastrophic accidents irrespective of whether the victim can pay or not.

Ability to pay is irrelevant. The biggest single cause of bankrupcy in America is medical debt. Catastrophic or not if you have a major incident and are uninsured you will be given a huge bill and often the only way to discharge the debt is bankrupcy. Happens many times every day.

As for the "few". 48 million Americans have no health insurance.

Yesterday you said 'relatively few' Americans were covered by Medicaid and that turned out to be 49 million. . . . .

Either way my point stands - the costs to US citizens to cover unpaid medical costs for lack of catastrophic insurance is a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of forcing comprehensive cover on everyone when only the former is relevant to your argument.

[AJS-]

What's so good about this? Woohoo - a tax rise!

And they say turkeys don't vote for Christmas!

[Jimbeaux]

unrepentant said:

Caulkhead said:

Americans like the freedom to choose and many don't see why they should fund healthcare for other people.

That's what's so dumb about the right and their spurious argument. The central plank (and the part that the right have the most issue with) of the affordable healthcare act is the individual mandate. The individual mandate requires everyone to take responsibility for their own healthcare insurance. Sounds pretty reasonable and should appeal to conservatives? Wrong.

Scenario: Someone chooses to be uncovered and never pay a premium, even though they can afford it. They have a serious heart attack / fall off a cliff and are badly injured / whatever. The bill is $250k / $500k / whatever. They can't pay. So they declare bankrupcy. Their bill is settled by everyone else.

Scenario: Someone has a serious health issue and cannot get insurance. They want to pay in to the system but the insurers will not cover them so they can't. They have a heart attack / stroke / whatever. The bill is $250k / $500k / whatever. They can't pay. So they declare bankrupcy. Their bill is settled by everyone else.

American's are funding other people. The affordable healthcare act makes it mandatory for the feckless to take care of their own insurance and makes it possible for those with pre existing conditions to buy their own insurance. Republicans hate it because it's a democrat policy implemented by Obama. FFS, Romney, their standard bearer, bought in an almost identical programme in Mass when he was govenor. Now he views it as satanic! It's laughable.

Wrong. You see, the ignorance is rampant on this issue on PH. This is understandable as it is "over here". You say it forces everyone to buy insurance. That would be great if true. Those that cannot afford it will be covered by the higher premiums and taxes. Guess what, all of a sudden, many more people will not be able to afford it. The criteria to qualifying for the alternative to buying insurance will be eased. This will allow many more to be "entitled". Once this happens, there is no going back. The Dems will get the vote from the entitled base.
The point of the argument against the mandate is constitutional. The Feds cannot force an American to buy any product, full stop. The mandate was held up as a tax, not a mandate. BTW, the POTUS promised it would not be a tax, yet that is how it was upheld. We all want to improve the healthcare system. The care available is better than anywhere, that is not the question, it is the system. Everyone agrees to lower costs of drugs, procedures, no pre-existing condition refusals, etc. There are better way to do this however. This plan is very flawed, included no doctors in its making, and was quickly forced through against the majority of American's will (which is why 33 members of Congress were voted out). I look forward to improvement; this is not it. More to come.

[unrepentant]

The right are suffering from apoplexy today.

Limbaugh and co have been confidently predicting that the act would be struck down by the republican dominated supreme court. Now that same court has done the right thing Limbaugh is now referring to Roberts v USA.

[Jimbeaux]

unrepentant said:

The right are suffering from apoplexy today.

Limbaugh and co have been confidently predicting that the act would be struck down by the republican dominated supreme court. Now that same court has done the right thing Limbaugh is now referring to Roberts v USA.

Roberts proves the court (at least the conservative members) can be unbiased. Roberts upheld the mandate as a tax, not as a mandate. Read his opinion. He states that he does not judge whether or not the law is any good. He also advises that if the majority of the people do not like the law, change your leaders. Once people realize how much their premiums are going up as well as their taxes (after Barry O promised they would not), they will unite against him. You harp on relentlessly in every post about "the right". You need to tone down because you dive deep and often into things you do not fully grasp. It is about freedom of choice based upon our founding rules. We are different than you (over the pond), think different than you, etc. We think much alike on many things but not on a few critical matters. That is why the "experiment" of a group of you breaking away from the homeland happened. Try to respect that a bit.

[unrepentant]

Jimbeaux said:

unrepentant said:

Caulkhead said:

Americans like the freedom to choose and many don't see why they should fund healthcare for other people.

That's what's so dumb about the right and their spurious argument. The central plank (and the part that the right have the most issue with) of the affordable healthcare act is the individual mandate. The individual mandate requires everyone to take responsibility for their own healthcare insurance. Sounds pretty reasonable and should appeal to conservatives? Wrong.

Scenario: Someone chooses to be uncovered and never pay a premium, even though they can afford it. They have a serious heart attack / fall off a cliff and are badly injured / whatever. The bill is $250k / $500k / whatever. They can't pay. So they declare bankrupcy. Their bill is settled by everyone else.

Scenario: Someone has a serious health issue and cannot get insurance. They want to pay in to the system but the insurers will not cover them so they can't. They have a heart attack / stroke / whatever. The bill is $250k / $500k / whatever. They can't pay. So they declare bankrupcy. Their bill is settled by everyone else.

American's are funding other people. The affordable healthcare act makes it mandatory for the feckless to take care of their own insurance and makes it possible for those with pre existing conditions to buy their own insurance. Republicans hate it because it's a democrat policy implemented by Obama. FFS, Romney, their standard bearer, bought in an almost identical programme in Mass when he was govenor. Now he views it as satanic! It's laughable.

Wrong. You see, the ignorance is rampant on this issue on PH. This is understandable as it is "over here". You say it forces everyone to buy insurance. That would be great if true. Those that cannot afford it will be covered by the higher premiums and taxes. Guess what, all of a sudden, many more people will not be able to afford it. The criteria to qualifying for the alternative to buying insurance will be eased. This will allow many more to be "entitled". Once this happens, there is no going back. The Dems will get the vote from the entitled base.
The point of the argument against the mandate is constitutional. The Feds cannot force an American to buy any product, full stop. The mandate was held up as a tax, not a mandate. BTW, the POTUS promised it would not be a tax, yet that is how it was upheld. We all want to improve the healthcare system. The care available is better than anywhere, that is not the question, it is the system. Everyone agrees to lower costs of drugs, procedures, no pre-existing condition refusals, etc. There are better way to do this however. This plan is very flawed, included no doctors in its making, and was quickly forced through against the majority of American's will (which is why 33 members of Congress were voted out). I look forward to improvement; this is not it. More to come.

Yawn. I didn't say it "forces everyone to buy insurance". I said it makes everyone take responsibility for their own insurance. If people are on such a low income or no income that they cannot afford it then it will be provided for them, as it is in every other first world country.

The bill was not forced through against the will of the majority of Americans. It was voted on in the house after Obama beat McCain very soundly with it as the central theme of his capmpaign. The majority of Americans voted for it. And will again in November.

[unrepentant]

Jimbeaux said:

You harp on relentlessly in every post about "the right". You need to tone down because you dive deep and often into things you do not fully grasp. It is about freedom of choice based upon our founding rules. We are different than you (over the pond), think different than you, etc. We think much alike on many things but not on a few critical matters. That is why the "experiment" of a group of you breaking away from the homeland happened. Try to respect that a bit.

I fully understand the "right" as it pertains to you and your pals matey. And I live where you live.

[Jimbeaux]

unrepentant said:

Jimbeaux said:

unrepentant said:

Caulkhead said:

Americans like the freedom to choose and many don't see why they should fund healthcare for other people.

That's what's so dumb about the right and their spurious argument. The central plank (and the part that the right have the most issue with) of the affordable healthcare act is the individual mandate. The individual mandate requires everyone to take responsibility for their own healthcare insurance. Sounds pretty reasonable and should appeal to conservatives? Wrong.

Scenario: Someone chooses to be uncovered and never pay a premium, even though they can afford it. They have a serious heart attack / fall off a cliff and are badly injured / whatever. The bill is $250k / $500k / whatever. They can't pay. So they declare bankrupcy. Their bill is settled by everyone else.

Scenario: Someone has a serious health issue and cannot get insurance. They want to pay in to the system but the insurers will not cover them so they can't. They have a heart attack / stroke / whatever. The bill is $250k / $500k / whatever. They can't pay. So they declare bankrupcy. Their bill is settled by everyone else.

American's are funding other people. The affordable healthcare act makes it mandatory for the feckless to take care of their own insurance and makes it possible for those with pre existing conditions to buy their own insurance. Republicans hate it because it's a democrat policy implemented by Obama. FFS, Romney, their standard bearer, bought in an almost identical programme in Mass when he was govenor. Now he views it as satanic! It's laughable.

Wrong. You see, the ignorance is rampant on this issue on PH. This is understandable as it is "over here". You say it forces everyone to buy insurance. That would be great if true. Those that cannot afford it will be covered by the higher premiums and taxes. Guess what, all of a sudden, many more people will not be able to afford it. The criteria to qualifying for the alternative to buying insurance will be eased. This will allow many more to be "entitled". Once this happens, there is no going back. The Dems will get the vote from the entitled base.
The point of the argument against the mandate is constitutional. The Feds cannot force an American to buy any product, full stop. The mandate was held up as a tax, not a mandate. BTW, the POTUS promised it would not be a tax, yet that is how it was upheld. We all want to improve the healthcare system. The care available is better than anywhere, that is not the question, it is the system. Everyone agrees to lower costs of drugs, procedures, no pre-existing condition refusals, etc. There are better way to do this however. This plan is very flawed, included no doctors in its making, and was quickly forced through against the majority of American's will (which is why 33 members of Congress were voted out). I look forward to improvement; this is not it. More to come.

Yawn. I didn't say it "forces everyone to buy insurance". I said it makes everyone take responsibility for their own insurance. If people are on such a low income or no income that they cannot afford it then it will be provided for them, as it is in every other first world country.

The bill was not forced through against the will of the majority of Americans. It was voted on in the house after Obama beat McCain very soundly with it as the central theme of his capmpaign. The majority of Americans voted for it. And will again in November.

As I said, those who cannot be forced will rise suddenly as criteria is eased. Don't be silly, wake up. As to "we voted for it"; bullst!@ The majority of Americans disapprove of this plan and demonstyrated so in the 2010 election by throwing the Dems out of the House of Representatives. The Dems have not been mentioning the Obamacare plan at all on the campaigne trail. Harp on but please do not try to piss on me and tell me it's raining. If you want to dare say that the people support Obamacare, prove it and show me clear stats.

[unrepentant]

Jimbeaux said:

As I said, those who cannot be forced will rise suddenly as criteria is eased. Don't be silly, wake up. As to "we voted for it"; bullst!@ The majority of Americans disapprove of this plan and demonstyrated so in the 2010 election by throwing the Dems out of the House of Representatives. The Dems have not been mentioning the Obamacare plan at all on the campaigne trail. Harp on but please do not try to piss on me and tell me it's raining. If you want to dare say that the people support Obamacare, prove it and show me clear stats.

There's only one poll that counts, the one in November. So when Obama is re-elected you can come here and admit that you're wrong.

Demonstyrated? Wtf??

[Jimbeaux]

Romney's website received $4.8 Million in 4 hours after the plan was upheld.

[Jimbeaux]

unrepentant said:

Jimbeaux said:

As I said, those who cannot be forced will rise suddenly as criteria is eased. Don't be silly, wake up. As to "we voted for it"; bullst!@ The majority of Americans disapprove of this plan and demonstyrated so in the 2010 election by throwing the Dems out of the House of Representatives. The Dems have not been mentioning the Obamacare plan at all on the campaigne trail. Harp on but please do not try to piss on me and tell me it's raining. If you want to dare say that the people support Obamacare, prove it and show me clear stats.

There's only one poll that counts, the one in November. So when Obama is re-elected you can come here and admit that you're wrong.

I see, so I was right and you cannot show me what I asked for.

[Jimbeaux]

unrepentant said:

Demonstyrated? Wtf??

You caught me "fat fingering" a keybord.....brilliant!

[unrepentant]

Jimbeaux said:

Romney's website received $4.8 Million in 4 hours after the plan was upheld.

Of course it did! Those vested interests are scared boy! This is a golden goose.

[Jimbeaux]

unrepentant said:

Jimbeaux said:

Romney's website received $4.8 Million in 4 hours after the plan was upheld.

Of course it did! Those vested interests are scared boy! This is a golden goose.

Is that the best you can do? Sad. I am off work today and am gone to do more important things. I will come back around when other beside yourself are here to discuss things on an adult basis with. Cheers!

[unrepentant]

Jimbeaux said:

Is that the best you can do? Sad. I am off work today and am gone to do more important things. I will come back around when other like minded rabid Obama hating right wing loonies are here to foam at the mouth with me. Cheers!

EFA.

[Motorrad]

So the judiciary in the US now makes law rather than interprets it.